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Thread: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah. because what our budget can really handle right now is another massive entitlement program.
    We're paying more than other countries right now. It can be done, paid for, and cost all of us less. To to mention remove it from employment, helping everyone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    What is a moderate Democrat? Is that like Bigfoot or Shadow people?

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare



    This law is junk, we always knew, Dems are getting to know it, and Obama has already admitted it (with the delayed implementation to 2015).
    I would disagree...
    "Once again reality has taken over from the Republicans, as a new study finds that only a small minority of businesses affected have made any significant changes in the number of hours their employees work. According to a 2012 report by the Kaiser Family Foundation, 98 percent of large firms (those that employ 200 or more workers), and 94 percent of medium-sized firms (those with 50 to 199 employees) offer health care coverage to their employees. It is counterintuitive to believe that any company that offered health coverage when it was not required would drop that coverage or reduce employee hours to avoid the requirement that they provide coverage now, although this is another claim prominent in Republican conversations.... most of these firms [those with 50 or more employees] would already be providing health care insurance for their employees and therefore need not be concerned about the sanctions in the ACA. If some number of firms actually are limiting or reducing employment to stay below the 50 worker cutoff then the impact would be too small to be noticed in the economy as a whole."
    Read more: GOP Talking Point Goes Down In Flames: Obamacare NOT Harming Workers -


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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We're paying more than other countries right now. It can be done, paid for, and cost all of us less. To to mention remove it from employment, helping everyone.
    Sure we can pay less - rationing does that. But you don't really address the point, which is that our budget cannot absorb another massive entitlement program.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sure we can pay less - rationing does that. But you don't really address the point, which is that our budget cannot absorb another massive entitlement program.
    More nonsense? You're better than that silliness. Nt being able to pay for something is rationing. No where in the world, not even here, des everyone get everything they want. But others do a better job of making sure everyone gets what they need, at less cost, and still allowing money to buy more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    And THAT is why so many people wanting so called voluntary surgery end up in the US. They don't want to or can't suffer the pain of a bad hip or back until there is room for them in maybe 6 months to a year.
    So many? Show me a link.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Canadian's seem to like it, they come here for medical care constantly.
    Link please.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More nonsense? You're better than that silliness. Nt being able to pay for something is rationing. No where in the world, not even here, des everyone get everything they want. But others do a better job of making sure everyone gets what they need, at less cost, and still allowing money to buy more.
    That is... shall we say, highly debatable. Not that other countries do not spend less, but that they get the same care for their smaller spending. If "what everyone needs" is "not to die when they get cancer", for example, the American model is superior.

    However, again, besides the point - the budget cannot absorb another major entitlement program. We simply do not have the ability to take the spending on healthcare in this country and put it on the public fisc.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is... shall we say, highly debatable. Not that other countries do not spend less, but that they get the same care for their smaller spending. If "what everyone needs" is "not to die when they get cancer", for example, the American model is superior.

    However, again, besides the point - the budget cannot absorb another major entitlement program. We simply do not have the ability to take the spending on healthcare in this country and put it on the public fisc.
    Your first point, how well you survive cancer depends a lot on what you can afford.

    Second point, it shouldn't effect the budget at all. The money we spend on insurance premiums, mark ups for the uninsured, and needless procedures would easily cover costs. Once you actually try to solve a problem, the more likely you are to solve it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    So many? Show me a link.
    Enjoy

    Fully 2% of Canada's populace at one point or another has left the country in order to seek medical care, while another 8% have had to move around within the country to find healthcare that their local government providers apparently couldn't give them.

    Five Key Drivers of Canadians seeking care elsewhere:
    1. Shorter Waiting Periods and Access to Care
    2. Comparable or Better Quality Care
    3. Ability to Afford Out-of-Country Costs
    4. Access to services not available in Canada
    5. Cosmetic Services

    The Most Common Reasons Why Canadians Leave to Find Healthcare:
    1. Orthopedic Procedures
    2. Neurosurgery / Neurology
    3. Weight Loss / Liposuction
    4. Cosmetic / Plastic Surgery
    5. Dental Procedures
    6. Cardiovascular Procedures
    7. Oncology
    8. Fertility
    9. Sex Reassignment

    Those highlighted in blue are those that I believe are being referenced here. Those being struck out appear to be people seeking actual purely because-I-want-it care.

    This, I would say, doesn't qualify as "just because I want it":
    ...A long wait for hip replacement surgery was what prompted the Quebec case that wound up before the Supreme Court.

    George Zeliotis argued his yearlong wait for surgery was unreasonable, endangered his life, and infringed on the charter's guarantee of the right to life, liberty and security. The second plaintiff, Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, wanted the court to overturn a Quebec provision preventing doctors who don't operate within the medicare plan from charging for services in public hospitals...
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-26-13 at 11:19 PM.

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