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Thread: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Even if it was junk, nobody enjoys the moral credibility to resist it. The inequities of health care in the United States have been starving for resolution for decades. Pretty much any effort at that, no matter how pitiful or harmful, is justifiable, and any resistance, no matter how wise or restrained, is not.

    As it is, the bad points of the law are exaggerated and the resistance is not wise or restrained.
    You need to calm down before you have a stroke.
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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Did you write your representatives when they voted for it? I did.
    Yes; also both of my senators and the White House, urging strongly that Medicare be extended to all age groups, or failing that, that they fight to the death for a Public Option, which Private Insurers feared knowing that once people see that Public trumps Private, the market would flock to the Public Option, purely by choice, since it would of course be optional.

    If Public is worse, why fear it? Are you seeing?

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    Yes; also both of my senators and the White House, urging strongly that Medicare be extended to all age groups, or failing that, that they fight to the death for a Public Option, which Private Insurers feared knowing that once people see that Public trumps Private, the market would flock to the Public Option, purely by choice, since it would of course be optional.

    If Public is worse, why fear it? Are you seeing?
    I don't think this is the response American wants to hear. I think he desperately hoped people want to go back to our failed for-profit system which is the most expensive in the world, yet can't even provide basic health care for 50M citizens without sending them to the emergency room.

    This is what conservatives do -- the solution they prefer to their failed policies is those some failed policies, cubed.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You need to calm down before you have a stroke.
    If there was universal healthcare, he'd have a lot less worry.

    Tell me, American... what do you think is so great about the system you have now?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    If a libertarian or conservative were given a million reasons why a UHC system was better than our current system they would still reject it and call it just a socialist scheme to steal their money and give it to the "takers", the average conservative is just gonna buy in to the scare tactics of the insurance industry when they start lobbying against it, that is if we ever do try to pass a system like so many other major countries have.
    In our personal ambitions we are individualists. But in our seeking for economic and political progress as a nation, we all go up or else all go down as one people.
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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You need to calm down before you have a stroke.
    If in thirty years the right-wing can't provide a direction or resolution to the inequities of health care practice in the United States that doesn't involve empty tough guy posturing, then they don't deserve further input into the process through which reform is provided. You either have vision, direction, and leadership, or you don't.

    Not sure why that is such a radical idea when something like it is a moral norm in every other aspect of human existence. Historically, if a commanding officers failed consistently, they tendered their resignations or accepted demotion.

    This notion Americans have that there should be no deadline to pushing an agenda is the sort of factionalism the Founding Fathers feared would grind the republic into ruin. At a certain point, you should quietly withdraw your agenda from the national discourse and find new causes to pursue.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 07-24-13 at 08:39 PM.
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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I agree..repeal and replace with universal healthcare.
    While I agree, that won't happen. Universal healthcare can only come with Obamacare as a foundation.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You need to calm down before you have a stroke.

    ... that would be bad, as a stroke under the most expensive and one of the least efficient healthcare systems in the world could lead to personal bankruptcy (1/2 of all bankruptcies in the US are from medical bills.... Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study) ... which could lead to heart attack.

    Nothing worse than having your number come up in the reverse lottery that is the American healthcare system.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    If there was universal healthcare, he'd have a lot less worry.

    Tell me, American... what do you think is so great about the system you have now?
    It offers the highest quality care to the sick out there, and is responsible for the vast majority of medical innovation, bringing the future hope of curing Downs Syndrome, AIDs, etc.

    Mind you, we have lots of problems. We have massive third-party-interference that distorts our ability to effectively reduce costs. The solution to that is not more third party interference.

    We live in a nation with universal healthcare - Japan. My wife just had a baby a couple of months ago. We were told that we could have our child at an American hospital or, if we couldn't get there in time, a Japanese hospital. We asked what the difference was. "Well, for starters, with a Japanese hospital, you won't get any pain medication - its too expensive and so they don't give out pain meds during birth".

    Every mother is now free to ask themselves whether or not they think that a blanket denial of pain meds during birth is indicative of a system that has allocated resources to where people want them.

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    Re: Moderate Democrats are quitting on Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It offers the highest quality care to the sick out there, and is responsible for the vast majority of medical innovation, bringing the future hope of curing Downs Syndrome, AIDs, etc.

    Mind you, we have lots of problems. We have massive third-party-interference that distorts our ability to effectively reduce costs. The solution to that is not more third party interference.

    We live in a nation with universal healthcare - Japan. My wife just had a baby a couple of months ago. We were told that we could have our child at an American hospital or, if we couldn't get there in time, a Japanese hospital. We asked what the difference was. "Well, for starters, with a Japanese hospital, you won't get any pain medication - its too expensive and so they don't give out pain meds during birth".

    Every mother is now free to ask themselves whether or not they think that a blanket denial of pain meds during birth is indicative of a system that has allocated resources to where people want them.
    We have universal healthcare in Canada, and no woman will be denied pain meds while giving birth. I am quite surprised that is the case in Japan. I'll have to ask my boyfriend who lived there for 5 years.

    In any event, if the option is to pay out of pocket, I am sure pain meds would be much cheaper than having to pay to the whole birth. I wonder how much that costs? $10,000-$15,000?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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