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Thread: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

  1. #21
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    Re: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I agree with you there. You guys are much more versed in COIN than we are. I would say we (US Marines) are better at it than our Army brethren are. I operated with Marines and Army my last tour in Iraq and the Army simply doesn't know how to get out of their armored vehicles and engage people (verbally engage lol). The Army has become so dependent upon supporting arms (air, arty, etc) that they don't know how to deal with a problem that can't be solved by overwhelming firepower. Marines do get a little aggressive with the populus as well though. They just do it on a face to face basis vice a bomb to face basis as the Army does. Either way, you're screwing it up when you get overly aggressive with the people you're trying to win over.
    US Marines are just so professional in most aspects of their job and was always a pleasure to watch them operate. The US army however....

    But yeh that was always my problem with the US in Iraq your whole military is geared towards invading and " shock and awe" and your the best in the business, but when a lighter touch was needed it seemed harder for them to adjust. Not really the fault of the lads on the ground as they are only as good as their orders but I though the US high command really dropped the ball for the years after the invasion. Then again the US military had never really experienced those kind of conditions before so hopefully they learned that lesson for future wars.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

  2. #22
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    MarineTpartier's Avatar
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    Re: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    US Marines are just so professional in most aspects of their job and was always a pleasure to watch them operate. The US army however....
    Lol! We aren't perfect by any stretch. But our Army is garbage. Hate to say it that bluntly because they have some good units (SF, Rangers, etc).
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    But yeh that was always my problem with the US in Iraq your whole military is geared towards invading and " shock and awe" and your the best in the business, but when a lighter touch was needed it seemed harder for them to adjust. Not really the fault of the lads on the ground as they are only as good as their orders but I though the US high command really dropped the ball for the years after the invasion. Then again the US military had never really experienced those kind of conditions before so hopefully they learned that lesson for future wars.
    Definitely. Our entire doctrine is all about knocking the door down and getting in the room. We just don't know what to do once we're in the room. I think the biggest failure on our part was at the battalion level. A lot of battalion commanders worry more about applying conventional doctrine to an unconventional environment. For example, the mindset was that there always had to be a "reserve force" when units were assigned positions in the battalions area of operations. Reserve force for what? At no time in Iraq do I remember a unit being overrun at a patrol base or larger. Also, we are so rigid in standards (like shaving in Afghanistan) that we lost those tiny advantages we could've had simply by being a little more flexible. We did a lot wrong over there for sure.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  3. #23
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    Re: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    All which happened in the 80's and 90's and he dismantled his arms then... Does not justify overthrowing him in the 2000's..
    For me this whole nation building doctrine has seen its last days. For me, I personally sign on to the bomb as much as we can afford, kill as many bad guys as possible, and live with the consequences of missing our targets once in a while. Let them clean up their own mess is the doctrine we should be living by. I suspect a lot less attacks on US citizens if we employed this approach more often.


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    Re: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

    Democracy isn't pretty, however I personally think it morally out weighs a dictatorship. 1776 wasn't so long ago. Time will tell where Iraq will be in a hundred years.

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    Re: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. E View Post
    Democracy isn't pretty, however I personally think it morally out weighs a dictatorship. 1776 wasn't so long ago. Time will tell where Iraq will be in a hundred years.
    At this rate it just might be more free than what the United States will be.
    Sic semper evello mortem Tyrannis

  6. #26
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    Re: Deadly violence continues to sweep Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    All which happened in the 80's and 90's and he dismantled his arms then... Does not justify overthrowing him in the 2000's..
    For what it's worth, I recall reading reports that his own commanders thought Saddam still had chemical arsenals. So it's not really a hard sale to believe that the misconception extended to their enemies

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