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Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

I dunno, if I were an aspiring politician, no matter where I was running for office, I'd make a documentary (not too long winded but just enough for the ill-informed voter to grab a clue) of Detroit, and show people everywhere what happens when liberalism is left untouched. I'd point to it, and say "see.. Damit, see".. Detroit is a gift to conservative politicians. The people of Detroit can't blame ANYONE other than themselves. Republicans', the GOP have nothing to do with what happened in Detroit. Can't blame Bush, can't blame a single republican for that turd! Only Democrats are to blame, and they OWN it incontrovertibly.


Tim-
 
Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

They ought to turn Detroit into a national park, to show our kids the wonders of "Government Help."

https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/status/357960657339023361

Heya LD
yo2.gif
.....yeah a major City is pretty bad. But don't you worry the Democrats in Illinois are pushing for even a Bigger Slice of the Pie. As they want the State of Illinois to file Bankruptcy.
 
I dunno, if I were an aspiring politician, no matter where I was running for office, I'd make a documentary (not too long winded but just enough for the ill-informed voter to grab a clue) of Detroit, and show people everywhere what happens when liberalism is left untouched. I'd point to it, and say "see.. Damit, see".. Detroit is a gift to conservative politicians. The people of Detroit can't blame ANYONE other than themselves. Republicans', the GOP have nothing to do with what happened in Detroit. Can't blame Bush, can't blame a single republican for that turd! Only Democrats are to blame, and they OWN it incontrovertibly.


Tim-

If you are a partisan hack, technically, Clinton did sign NAFTA that started the ball rolling on outsourcing many of our manufacturing plants and popped the genie out of the bottle so to speak. But, I'm not convinced these bad policies are really Republican vs. Democrat.
 
I just love it how the right libertarians constantly expose their disdain for the common American and in turn favor corporations and the wealthy.
And then you wonder why they cannot even muster 1% in the presidential vote and have to resort to carjacking an established party to get any semblance of power at all. :roll:

What's especially stupid is this "us vs them" mentality with regard to the corporations and the people. What kind of loser isn't connected in some way with corporations in terms of his savings, investments, employment, corporate taxation, or his needs for goods and services? Corporations are the people, or a big part of them.
 
Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

Heya LD
yo2.gif
.....yeah a major City is pretty bad. But don't you worry the Democrats in Illinois are pushing for even a Bigger Slice of the Pie. As they want the State of Illinois to file Bankruptcy.

Indeed. Even as we see Detroit go down in ignominious collapse liberals are working tirelessly to do the same to the rest of the country, not the least California, where, if memory serves, a few medium sized cities are in bankruptcy and the governor is crowing about 'reversing the deficit' based on projections that people will stop leaving the state in droves fleeing high taxes and oppressive and expensive regulations.

I hear they are optimistic about doing the same to Texas soon. If Texas goes down then what is left?
 
Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

Heya LD
yo2.gif
.....yeah a major City is pretty bad. But don't you worry the Democrats in Illinois are pushing for even a Bigger Slice of the Pie. As they want the State of Illinois to file Bankruptcy.

How is using bankruptcy to overturn union contracts going to win the Dems in Illinois a bigger slice of the pie?
 
Yes, and when you look at the cost, pensions actually costs the tax payers less. They benefit from the social security money teachers put into the system but will not collect. They benefit when teachers contribute more to the pension system. The important thing is that these pensions need to be be protected from corruption like any system does.

Here's a shock. Teachers do not put money into Social Security while they're teaching. If they have another career out of the teacher retirement system and have paid into Social Security for the necessary 40 quarters? They get that, too.

Taxpayers need to protect themselves from a public sector pension system that's used to buy votes and campaign contributions all the while saddling The Average Joe with a debt he cannot afford.
 
Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

Other countries around the world heavily subsidies their auto industry. They maintain a mix of tariffs and non-tariffs regimes protecting the car industries at significantly higher levels than the US.

Bull****. The European car market has been free and open for decades. Japan may have limits, but that is about it.
 
Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

....Which? ;) I'd love to know. These ones?

2987025203_fc2c517522_o-748920.jpg


The reality is a simple one. If a state is getting bailed out, the money will come from rich blue states.

Your cute little chart is way off. California is irreversibly bankrupt already. They're using their Amex card to pay the Visa bill, which is maxed out from paying the MasterCard bill.
 
What's especially stupid is this "us vs them" mentality with regard to the corporations and the people. What kind of loser isn't connected in some way with corporations in terms of his savings, investments, employment, corporate taxation, or his needs for goods and services? Corporations are the people, or a big part of them.

Yes, corporations were a large part of employees health as far as all you mentioned except over time risks that corporations use to take on now have been shifted to the employers so it's not the same company your grandfather worked for years ago. Now corporations not only want to shift risks to workers but also want to pocket bigger profits by not paying taxes, setting up subsidiaries to shelter money from a country, use social safety nets to their benefit and the list goes on. People just want to have some kind of checks and balance in place because it doesn't exist like it once did. Model legislation is now being used by such groups as ALEC to give them more power to do as they please with less oversight.
 
Oh, I've participated and contributed to social security my entire life. I started working at 16 and entered the teaching field at 25 and have held a second job my entire working history.

Also, did I mention as a survivor I will only be able to collect one third of my husbands social security.

I understand that but as I stated there are a lot of states that do not have their public employees participating in SS and offer their own pension program. SS was established as a retirement supplement not sole retirement benefits.
 
I dunno, if I were an aspiring politician, no matter where I was running for office, I'd make a documentary (not too long winded but just enough for the ill-informed voter to grab a clue) of Detroit, and show people everywhere what happens when liberalism is left untouched. I'd point to it, and say "see.. Damit, see".. Detroit is a gift to conservative politicians. The people of Detroit can't blame ANYONE other than themselves. Republicans', the GOP have nothing to do with what happened in Detroit. Can't blame Bush, can't blame a single republican for that turd! Only Democrats are to blame, and they OWN it incontrovertibly.


Tim-

yeah.... sure .... whatever ..... it was the favorite whipping boy of the far right - LIBERALISM.

The fact that 0ver 60% of the population shifted to the suburbs - had nothing to do with it.
The fact that the Big Three auto companies shut down many plants in the city - had nothing to do with it.
The fact that other ancillary businesses then moved also following the Big Three - had nothing to do with it.
The fact that the riots happened driving out massive numbers of middle class people - had nothing to do with it.
The fact that the tax base was radically decreased year after year after year - had nothing to do with it.
The fact that the state legislature passed laws agreeing to pay Detroit certain revenue sharing money and then reneged on the deal - had nothing to do with it.

Its liberalism don't you know. :roll::doh:(
 
Here's a shock. Teachers do not put money into Social Security while they're teaching. If they have another career out of the teacher retirement system and have paid into Social Security for the necessary 40 quarters? They get that, too.

Taxpayers need to protect themselves from a public sector pension system that's used to buy votes and campaign contributions all the while saddling The Average Joe with a debt he cannot afford.

Maggie - I taught for 33 years. I paid into SS all that time.
 
Here's a shock. Teachers do not put money into Social Security while they're teaching. If they have another career out of the teacher retirement system and have paid into Social Security for the necessary 40 quarters? They get that, too.

Taxpayers need to protect themselves from a public sector pension system that's used to buy votes and campaign contributions all the while saddling The Average Joe with a debt he cannot afford.

No, but I do get to chose which system I get to collect from even though I've contributed quite a bit over my life time to both systems. I may collect less than 10% on my social security though. Pension systems are less expensive than setting up 401K systems for public workers.
 
Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

And one of the biggest reasons they did not innovate and the quality of their cars went down was the fact that they had to pay double or triple what their Japanese and European competition had to pay for labor.

Wrong. GM and Ford (Chrysler has not counted since the 1980s) have had massive profits year after year, but where as Ford actually invested it in R&D, GM never did. While I dont disagree labor costs,.. well healthcare costs, are nuts in the US car industry legacy companies, they are not the reason that GM failed.

Fact is GM, Ford and Chrysler were never pushed legislatively via regulations to do better, so they slept in class. When American's suddenly realized that gas was actually expensive, and wanted a car that went longer than 5 miles a gallon, then they could not find many, if any GM, Ford or Chrysler cars that fit that bill. THAT is why they started to fail..

There was a lot less money to put into the cars. It was only much later, when the industry in the US was facing collapse, that unions started making concessions.

Wrong wrong and more wrong.

Unions are nothing but an excuse for lax and stupid management. Fact is unions in France and Germany are far worse than American unions (car industry wise), and yet they have managed to keep up with increased tougher regulations. Japan as well. And that is because their management actually invested in R&D to make sure that they could meet the regulations.

Fact is, that US emission standard did not change from the late 1970s till Obama forced through new regulations... that is 30 years where the direct competition to the US car companies world wide made more and more efficient and cleaner engines to meet strict regulations in Europe and Japan.

The irony is, that GM has an European car company (Opel) who had to meet the regulations and does, but GM did not transfer the tech to the US until it was too late.. there was no reason too.. Pathetic, and then they blame the unions for their own stupid management.
 
Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

How is using bankruptcy to overturn union contracts going to win the Dems in Illinois a bigger slice of the pie?

Because they would have the Fed buy up the Bonds which was totaling 96 Billion in pension liability. Then they would only pay a small portion of their debts. While continuing to spend more money. On everything.....including bad contracts with those outside Illinois.

Which also would include those out of Chicago and its Debts.....as well as it's corruption.

Now what benefits do you think they would have if they Upset the Bond markets? While continuing to get re-elected and still having the support of all their Unions?
 
Maggie - I taught for 33 years. I paid into SS all that time.

My wife has been a teacher for over 26 years and she has never paid into SS. In Illinois they have a Teachers Pension Fund. Nothing is paid into SS.
 
I understand that but as I stated there are a lot of states that do not have their public employees participating in SS and offer their own pension program. SS was established as a retirement supplement not sole retirement benefits.

Yet, pension for companies and now public employees have been or are being eliminated---go figure. Anyway, you made my point that many costs have been shifted to workers over time. I'm not sure if many workers are even aware of it.
 
My wife has been a teacher for over 26 years and she has never paid into SS. In Illinois they have a Teachers Pension Fund. Nothing is paid into SS.

I live and taught in the state of Michigan. 33 plus years. Paid into both the pension fund and the SS system every pay day.
 
My wife has been a teacher for over 26 years and she has never paid into SS. In Illinois they have a Teachers Pension Fund. Nothing is paid into SS.

However, many teachers do hold second jobs which do contribute to social security, although, I did work in TN for a short time and those teachers do contribute to both systems.
 
I just love it how the right libertarians constantly expose their disdain for the common American and in turn favor corporations and the wealthy.
And then you wonder why they cannot even muster 1% in the presidential vote and have to resort to carjacking an established party to get any semblance of power at all. :roll:
Logical fallacy.

If the bankruptcy of a city gets structured in such a way that the entire brunt of the financial hit is absorbed by the bond holders and anyone receiving a pension is left unscathed, this does not in any way protect the little guy. You seem to think that it is only large corporations and "the rich" that are invested in municipal bonds. You've been repeating this same false narrative throughout this thread. Can you really not grasp the fact that people who hold these bonds as part of their IRAs and 401ks are not rich? It isn't the executives at the financial institutions that manage individual retirement accounts that are going to get hurt, it is the individuals that have their investments in these firms that are going to get hurt.

Why is it so difficult to understand that if "ABC Mutual", an investment firm, goes under because it had it's clients invested in Detroit municipal bonds, that it is the CLIENTS of the firm that will suffer the most. Do you really think the executive brass of "ABC Mutual" is going to wind up in the poorhouse because their firm went belly up?

Great. The Detroit retirees get to keep 100% of their pensions. In the meantime a bunch of "corporations" suffer massive financial losses and are either forced to downsize or into bankruptcy themselves. Their clients lose half of their retirement money and the executives parachute out unscathed.

A VICTORY FOR THE PEOPLE!!:roll:
 
Logical fallacy.

Actually my statement

I just love it how the right libertarians constantly expose their disdain for the common American and in turn favor corporations and the wealthy.
And then you wonder why they cannot even muster 1% in the presidential vote and have to resort to carjacking an established party to get any semblance of power at all.



is not a logical fallacy but a POLITICAL REALITY.
 
However, many teachers do hold second jobs which do contribute to social security, although, I did work in TN for a short time and those teachers do contribute to both systems.

Well yes that's true if holding another job. Mine is also a Choir Director for some of the towns and park districts. So they take taxes from that.
 
Maggie - I taught for 33 years. I paid into SS all that time.

An estimated one-half of public school teachers do not participate in Social Security, including a majority to substantially all in California, Connecticut, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri, and Texas.

My knowledge, of course, comes from Illinois. If you paid into Social Security and didn't receive a pension from it, please show a link.
 
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