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Thread: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

  1. #171
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    This completely avoids the question so I'll ask it again...

    How does supporting Detroit having to go through normal bankruptcy proceedings equate to "disdain for the common American and in turn favor corporations and the wealthy"?

    Can you answer this honestly or are you going to duck and dodge and pretend that you never said it?
    I gave you a clear answer. There are serious questions about why a bankruptcy today should be able to clear the city of its responsibilities down the road that ARE NOT DUE TODAY.
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? Every dime of a gov't employee's pension is paid by the taxpayers. If your gov't employee "salary" is $75K and you put $5K (of that) into "your" pension fund then that is EXACTLY the same thing as paying you $70K and putting $5K into your pension fund. The difference is between paying you out of general revenue (say at 1/2 your salary, with COLA adjustments and full fringe benefits), verses out of your personal retirement account funds (whatever that actually yields and you get no fringe benefits).

    Detriot is not a state. Detriot has 9K current workers and 20K now collecting defined benefit pensions (including medical benefits) from them. The Detroit tax base is falling fast, yet its liabilities are increasing fast and it has no ability to borrow more, much less to pay the interest/priciple on that it has already borrowed. Detriot now owes over $9 billion to its pensioners alone and has NOTHING to pay them with. There is not some magical "independent" fund earning money to pay these pensioners, the gov't of Detriot replaced that "fund" with IOU's to spend on other things.
    False!

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    Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    The good news is.....so far Congress wont consider it for a State.

    Still.....here is Detroit. Way bigger than Stockton California, the first City to file for bankruptcy in the US.

    Then what happens if Chicago, NY, or LA.....decide they don't want to pay their debts for the money they have spent and borrowed? Almost like city states with the regions they affect and around them.

    I believe I mentioned way back at the beginning of this year. That the Democrats would be going after pension reform. That it would be them.....coming after those Unions. But like Quinn and Emanuel keep telling them. They are going to save their pensions with their reforms.

    Leaving them to figure out that part on.....otherwise what, what happens if nothing is done?
    I'm not convinced there is any good news in this situation. Personally, I think the shock doctrine is just being played out in the city where the doctrine was born. I can't help but look at history and feel this is going to be very bad for us regular folks and not so bad at all for those who will make a killing.

    Let's start with the people who are now helping to write laws: Banks' Lobbyists Help in Drafting Financial Bills - NYTimes.com

    We're in big trouble unless more people realize what is really going on and what is at stake. Of course just MHO.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Please be serious. My first job out of college was working at an investment company that managed retirement accounts and stock plans for large corporations. The vast majority of companies have stock purchase programs. Only a handful gave stock directly as compensation and for the most part that stock was in lieu of direct money contributions or matching to a 401k.

    Where did I mention minimum wage! I mentioned a fact that half of wage earners in this country receive less than around 30,000 a year.
    Ever consider that half the people in the country making 30,000 a year or less are doing so because of lack of initiative and drive? As for your claim regarding stock options you are wrong with more companies than you realize giving matching contributions and putting that into a 401k and having the option of the employee putting in nothing and still the employer putting in a percentage of the employee salary

    Why don't you come up with a solution to the problem that benefits the employee, the employer, and the consumer? To do so you would have to understand that the end user is the one that drives company decision making and if the company cannot make a profit they will not remain in business.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Interesting analysis about Detroit, Obama, and Romney, especially for those who believe Romney was wrong.

    Obama Takes Romney

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So in your value system breaking your contractual promises is simply something done because your extremist beliefs let you do it.
    Welcome to reality. The saddest part is that any contract made by government has the taxpayer, indefinitely, on the hook for it. In stark contrast to the rest of us schlubs in the private market who have no taxpayers and state entity on the hook, we have to make smart decisions in the wild west of private industry...that place that funds the existence of the public space in the first place. Private industry goes down, they are **** out of luck. Being on the hook for union/public pensions, while our own are subject to market forces without such security, that's entirely unfair to the taxpayers who were not in control of the negotiation in the first place. It's also unfair because the taxpayers are subsidizing what the public workers benefit form in terms of better pension return points (at least 1-2% better than similar private), the less likelihood of bankruptcy (oops!). Unions, but especially public unions, are a blight for that and many other obvious reasons. And I can assure you, I have never promised to fund Detroit's public pensions.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No, I mean it looks like the area was bombed or something, not just random thugs shooting at each other.



    Part of that is from the 1967 riots and part is from freeway construction/urban-renewal.

    I was born in Detroit 70 years ago and I know that it is a vastly different place today from what it was then or even 50 years ago.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    I heard this on the radio today: "If Obama had a city, it would look like Detroit" LOL

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Well a judge just ruled that the filing was unconstitutional and violates the rights of pensioners.

    WXYZ) - A circuit court judge in Ingham County ruled that the City of Detroit’s Chapter 9 bankruptcy filed on Thursday violates the Michigan constitution, according to court orders she issued in three separate cases involving city pensioners.

    Ingham County Circuit Court Judge Rosemarie E. Aquilina issued the orders Thursday and Friday, including a temporary restraining order, in an attempt to halt the Chapter 9 filing by Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr. The judge says the bankruptcy filing “…will cause irreparable injury” to the pensioners.

    “In order to rectify his unauthorized and unconstitutional actions described above,” wrote Judge Aquilina, the Governor must (1) direct the Emergency Manager to immediately withdraw the Chapter 9 petition filed on July 18, and (2) not authorize any further Chapter 9 filing which threatens to diminish or impair accrued pension benefits.”

    The order also includes many hand-written notes through them, including a final note on one order from the judge, which states that the order will “…be transmitted to President Obama.”

    The judge will hold a hearing on Monday, at 9 a.m. on the restraining order, which she also writes is in effect until August 22.
    Read more: Judge rules Detroit Chapter 9 bankruptcy filing unconstitutional

    So this is far from an open and shut case. The question as to pensions is a very very significant question in this case as this ruling shows.
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Welcome to reality. The saddest part is that any contract made by government has the taxpayer, indefinitely, on the hook for it. In stark contrast to the rest of us schlubs in the private market who have no taxpayers and state entity on the hook, we have to make smart decisions in the wild west of private industry...that place that funds the existence of the public space in the first place. Private industry goes down, they are **** out of luck. Being on the hook for union/public pensions, while our own are subject to market forces without such security, that's entirely unfair to the taxpayers who were not in control of the negotiation in the first place. It's also unfair because the taxpayers are subsidizing what the public workers benefit form in terms of better pension return points (at least 1-2% better than similar private), the less likelihood of bankruptcy (oops!). Unions, but especially public unions, are a blight for that and many other obvious reasons. And I can assure you, I have never promised to fund Detroit's public pensions.
    Oh, please. Did we not bail out banks? The same people who are helping to write laws for themselves? Tax payers pay toward public resources because they are necessary for their city/town to function. Of course they could turn it over into private hands which is exactly what they are looking to do but it won't save money. Just look at the private prison industry.

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