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Thread: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

  1. #111
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    Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Now that is bull****. The American auto industry did not innovate and change with the times, that is why they failed.

    The only American car company that did not fail was Ford, and that is solely due to the fact that Ford had a big stake overseas in Europe where regulations forced them, and European and Japanese car makers, to innovate and improve their cars.

    And that all happened while GM and Chrysler pushed out the same crap cars in a new design year after year.
    Other countries around the world heavily subsidies their auto industry. They maintain a mix of tariffs and non-tariffs regimes protecting the car industries at significantly higher levels than the US.

  2. #112
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    According to what I read, in 1991 it was $25,000, but whatever. How much do you think the average Social Security recipient receives today?? $14,760 a year. What's the maximum a Social Security recipient can receive today? $30,000. Today. Why are public sector workers not a part of the system that's good enough for everyone else?

    Pretty sure most people know the answer to that...
    Try $25,000 for a life time not a year. They were receiving around that amount a year when they had pensions. Contribution plans do not work the same as defined benefits.

  3. #113
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. No. Whose interests are served are irrelevant (or should be) to a judge. What the law is is what matters - and the law is pretty clear. Bondholders come first. Otherwise, other municipalities will find it increasingly difficult and costly to borrow, and more of them will go into bankruptcy, and more public workers will suddenly find their pensions disappearing. Your proposed policy will have the opposite of the effect you are hoping to achieve.

    2. Alot of those bondholders are retirees themselves, or pension funds that pay out to retirees. Not a little bit of your argument comes down to "we should screw over private sector retirees in order to better benefit public sector retirees".
    Oh sure let's make it dog eat dog. That is what the wealthy people who decide to do these things want us to do in response.

  4. #114
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    She was a teacher with administrative responsibilities. I'm sorry I can't give you that for privacy reasons.
    I figured administration pay and not teacher. TY

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So if you were the judges, what would you do regarding people on pensions for city work?
    Bankruptcy in regular order. No political favors.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Try $25,000 for a life time not a year. They were receiving around that amount a year when they had pensions. Contribution plans do not work the same as defined benefits.
    I was incorrect. I read the article wrong. (I'm very familiar with defined contribution vs defined benefit plans. I set one up for my employees. We cancelled it and paid out tons of money to our employees in order to do that. I didn't begrudge our employees that payout, but we could simply not afford the defined benefit plan -- went to 401K's.)

    When the West Virginia legislature switched those teachers to 401K's? They were wrong not to put them into Social Security. That was a complete ****-up.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Now that is bull****. The American auto industry did not innovate and change with the times, that is why they failed.

    The only American car company that did not fail was Ford, and that is solely due to the fact that Ford had a big stake overseas in Europe where regulations forced them, and European and Japanese car makers, to innovate and improve their cars.

    And that all happened while GM and Chrysler pushed out the same crap cars in a new design year after year.
    And one of the biggest reasons they did not innovate and the quality of their cars went down was the fact that they had to pay double or triple what their Japanese and European competition had to pay for labor. There was a lot less money to put into the cars. It was only much later, when the industry in the US was facing collapse, that unions started making concessions.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

    They ought to turn Detroit into a national park, to show our kids the wonders of "Government Help."

    https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog/sta...60657339023361

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I was incorrect. I read the article wrong. (I'm very familiar with defined contribution vs defined benefit plans. I set one up for my employees. We cancelled it and paid out tons of money to our employees in order to do that. I didn't begrudge our employees that payout, but we could simply not afford the defined benefit plan -- went to 401K's.)

    When the West Virginia legislature switched those teachers to 401K's? They were wrong not to put them into Social Security. That was a complete ****-up.
    Yes, and when you look at the cost, pensions actually costs the tax payers less. They benefit from the social security money teachers put into the system but will not collect. They benefit when teachers contribute more to the pension system. The important thing is that these pensions need to be be protected from corruption like any system does.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Bankruptcy in regular order. No political favors.
    I just love it how the right libertarians constantly expose their disdain for the common American and in turn favor corporations and the wealthy.
    And then you wonder why they cannot even muster 1% in the presidential vote and have to resort to carjacking an established party to get any semblance of power at all.
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