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Thread: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

  1. #91
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A big reason Orr did this was that the major creditors and pension holders would not give in to his demands. I strongly hope and pray that the judge will see the very practical difference between major corporations who hold bonds with the city and people on pensions who pushed a broom or cleaned bathrooms or drove a bus for 35 years to get a small pension. The judge should treat the two very very differently.
    Yes, there's no question that the latter groups you mention will contribute nothing to the recovery, and that has to be consitered.

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    Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    West Virginia did that and it failed miserably. Many forget that teachers can't collect social security.
    I would trade any one of those teachers my future Social Security benefits for their Teacher's pension. Do you think there would be any takers?

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    West Virginia did that and it failed miserably. Many forget that teachers can't collect social security.
    Why should any government employee with a guaranteed pension be able to collect social security? That's double dipping any way you slice it.
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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    I would trade any one of those teachers my future Social Security benefits for their Teacher's pension. Do you think there would be any takers?
    I doubt Tommy Boy's ex-wife would trade you. She receives a $130,000 a year teacher's pension. She's 57 years old.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

    BUT...BUT...BUT that city is run by good Democrats and President Obama saved the American auto industry - so the report MUST be false.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I quickly looked up West Virginia, and the taxpayers got screwed royally. What else is new? In a nutshell, the state closed the defined benefit pension plan to new hires in 1991 and put them on 401K's -- you know, like the rest of America. Well, in 2009, those teachers in the 401K's demanded a do-over -- and the WV legislature went along with it! "Let's pretend like the last 18 years didn't happen and give us our defined benefit pension plans!! What a freaking joke. It is only a matter of time until taxpayers revolt against this nonsense. It's getting closer and closer every single day.
    Tax payers and teachers got screwed over. Teachers that went to retire after 30 years received an average pension of $23,000 to live off of until they died. Of course, that got them half a year and then they went on welfare. I suppose you could say poor tax payers because they ended up paying out for welfare until these teachers died. Pension systems (that are not corrupt) save the tax payers money. Just a fact.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    I would trade any one of those teachers my future Social Security benefits for their Teacher's pension. Do you think there would be any takers?
    I suppose you wouldn't say that if you were not given your pension and your social security and to make matters worst when your spouse died you could only collect one third of his/her social security after a life time of both of you paying into the system.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I doubt Tommy Boy's ex-wife would trade you. She receives a $130,000 a year teacher's pension. She's 57 years old.
    Is she a teacher or administrator? I'd like to see that link.

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    Re: Detroit Files for Largest Municipal Bankruptcy in US History

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    Why should any government employee with a guaranteed pension be able to collect social security? That's double dipping any way you slice it.
    Really, would you like to explain how that is double dipping?

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    Re: Detroit emergency manager files bankruptcy

    Detroit was a city built on the great industrial/auto revolution and then WWII and once again in the wealth of the 1950s and 60s.

    By the early 1970s, the Federals had made it so that between EPA and DOT regulations with existing limited technology then - and the massive costs of retooling basically everything pre-computer - the US auto industry was limited to building completely crap automobiles - and this continued well into the 1980s. The Japanese, already tooled for small motors and cars and with a fraction of the employee costs filled the gap - permanently - and Detroit was dead.

    In 1971, the year the first EPA regulations hit hard, Ford has only a few years earlier tooled for it's next generation motors - NONE of which could possibly meet the regulations. Threatening to file bankruptcy, the EPA adjusted enough to allow Ford's motors to be used, although so downgraded a form as to be junk. Horsepower dropped as much as 40% in one year, and gas mileage went down too. Chrysler was hit worse and relied on selling Japan made cars called Chryslers. GM faired a bit better, having calculated to use EPA and DOT standards to wipe out about 90% of the worlds' smaller car makers from being able to import - and making a run at shutting down Porsche, for which Porsche responded with the (then) incredible 928 - for 3 years the fastest production car in the world and putting Corvette to shame... while still stinging from the Corvair disaster - ending the prospect of America making cars to compete with Euro sports cars. Ralph Nader became famous by shattering GM making a highly efficient, gas economy more Euro-style rear engine car that put VW to shame...

    Anyway, the actual history of the death of American auto industry is popularly blamed on unions, when the real greater blame lays with the Greenies and the "OMG CARS ARE DANGEROUS!" folks. It was the end of the decades long the truly great design, creatively and uniquely American history and love-affair with the automobile. Cars actually used to have STYLE!

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