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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    It is merely your opinion that he never saw Jesus.
    He never met Jesus. There is nothing but his word to say that he met Jesus, very much like Joseph Smith.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yes. But it is not a solid argument that this is gender related since any person of any sex can marry any person of the opposite sex in any state in the union. No one is denied opportunity to marriage by gender. I can't remember who it was that was arguing that because a man can't marry a man, when a woman can marry a man that it's gender based discrimination, but that argument has no legal validity at all because men and women are not treated differently by such a restriction. A man may no more marry another man than a woman could marry another woman. That argument would only have merit if a state allowed male + male marriage but not female + female marriage (or vice-versa).
    And any person of any race could marry any person of their own race. That is why it is the same situation, so therefore the same concept of which level of scrutiny would be used would apply in both cases.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yes. But it is not a solid argument that this is gender related since any person of any sex can marry any person of the opposite sex in any state in the union. No one is denied opportunity to marriage by gender. I can't remember who it was that was arguing that because a man can't marry a man, when a woman can marry a man that it's gender based discrimination, but that argument has no legal validity at all because men and women are not treated differently by such a restriction. A man may no more marry another man than a woman could marry another woman. That argument would only have merit if a state allowed male + male marriage but not female + female marriage (or vice-versa).
    This logic was rejected with interracial marriage bans. "Anyone can marry someone of the same race! It's equal treatment!"

    You and I cannot marry each other. Because we are both men. That is a gender-based classification and is therefore subject to an intermediate level of scrutiny. What important state interest is served in this?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Libertarians are generally not dumb enough to be Republicans and defiantly not dumb enough to be Democrats.


    And historically Democrats were the the ones who stood in the way of women, blacks, hispanics, and gays. Republicans were not that stalwart back then but even back then too many wanted to be liked by their political enemies.
    If you want to get into history you should read up on the Southern Strategy. It used to be the way you say. It isn't now.

    I don't think libertarians are dumb. They're just not realizing that the world is more complicated than Econ 101.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-17-13 at 10:24 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Libertarians are generally not dumb enough to be Republicans and defiantly not dumb enough to be Democrats.


    And historically Democrats were the the ones who stood in the way of women, blacks, hispanics, and gays. Republicans were not that stalwart back then but even back then too many wanted to be liked by their political enemies.
    Thanks for the history lesson. I never knew Abe Lincoln was a Republican! Of course times have changed. It's the Republicans firmly in the doorway as far as women, minorities, are concerned.

    and I must respectfully disagree with you regarding Libertarians. Any political organization that includes racists like the Paul family is pretty dumb.
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    If you want to get into history you should read up on the Southern Strategy. It used to be the way you say. It isn't now.

    I don't think libertarians are dumb. They're just not realizing that the world is more complicated than Econ 101.
    Which makes them dumb in my opinion. And as for the Southern strategy, the Republicans have forgotten all about that - after all, it was way back in the 1970's and 80's when Lee Atwater memorably made Republican electoral strategy to go after 'the negrophobe vote'. It worked much better, when blacks weren't allowed to vote in parts of the country. They're slowly trying to get back to those days.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I'll ask it again; (bigger this time, maybe you missed it before as you didn't answer the question)

    How does legal same sex marriage harm you and yours?
    But they aren't mine. I've never married.


    It doesn't directly harm me if biter self loathing people with envy and validation issues desecrate a cemetery and demand to be given granite monuments just like the honored dead, either.

    But I'd still object.

    Such reprehensible behavior is an attack upon the culture,and common decency. It's also pestilential, infantile behavior which should never be encouraged nor rewarded.

    Marriage, just like the cemetery, is the province of those for whom it was made.

    If one wants to be married, one should seek out an eligible and willing member of the opposite sex. If one wishes the honors of the dead, one should die.

    Lack of inclination is no denial of rights.

    Again, only silly Moderns need to have these things explained.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He never met Jesus. There is nothing but his word to say that he met Jesus, very much like Joseph Smith.
    Except the testimony of the other Apostles. Say what you wish but you are wrong on that point.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And any person of any race could marry any person of their own race. That is why it is the same situation, so therefore the same concept of which level of scrutiny would be used would apply in both cases.
    Nice try but it fails as a comparison. Except for the race, the marriage would have been otherwise legal in any state. Same sex marriage requires the fundamental definition of marriage to be changed. You just don't want to get this, do you?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    This logic was rejected with interracial marriage bans. "Anyone can marry someone of the same race! It's equal treatment!"

    You and I cannot marry each other. Because we are both men. That is a gender-based classification and is therefore subject to an intermediate level of scrutiny. What important state interest is served in this?
    Wrong. We can both marry. We just can't marry each other. The state doesn't have to permit any permutation of marriage anyone desires. If this stupid argument was so potent, all 50 states would have to be allowing same sex marriage by now because it would have been a supreme court slam dunk. Everyone but the rubes on the homosexual advocacy side seem to get this. The lawyers do.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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