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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    You have a good point about states rights and limiting legal entities.
    The argument would still go on, but perhaps not as rancorous an argument, about gay civil unions. Clearly, there could be restrictions on brothers forming unions with sisters, among others. On the other hand, could they also make interracial unions illegal?
    I doubt that interracial unions would or could enter back into the equation since we have a suspect class and strict judicial scrutiny over anything race-related.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I doubt that interracial unions would or could enter back into the equation since we have a suspect class and strict judicial scrutiny over anything race-related.
    Don't we have the same strict judicial scrutiny over anything gender related?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    That's a severe violation of the First Amendment.
    Thank you. Someone on the right who gets it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Don't we have the same strict judicial scrutiny over anything gender related?
    Yes. But it is not a solid argument that this is gender related since any person of any sex can marry any person of the opposite sex in any state in the union. No one is denied opportunity to marriage by gender. I can't remember who it was that was arguing that because a man can't marry a man, when a woman can marry a man that it's gender based discrimination, but that argument has no legal validity at all because men and women are not treated differently by such a restriction. A man may no more marry another man than a woman could marry another woman. That argument would only have merit if a state allowed male + male marriage but not female + female marriage (or vice-versa).
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Thank you. Someone on the right who gets it.
    ^^^ Someone else who got it wrong.

    This should be your clue:

    1. If the article was correct and not misleading, the idea that simply holding an informal and unofficial ceremony that was not legal could not possibly be illegal as it would be a hard violation of freedom of speech. No doubt about that.

    2. Since this wasn't major network news and because you don't hear democrats all over the media SMASHING the republican for freedom of speech violations, you can rest assured that the implication of the article was wrong. There is no WAY the democrat party would overlook an opportunity this good if there was substance behind the Chinese Whispers.

    It's a good test to apply to anything from obscure politically slanted propaganda generation sites. Propaganda is much like anything else.... If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.
    Last edited by Papa bull; 07-17-13 at 04:35 PM.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    ^^^ Someone else who got it wrong.

    This should be your clue:

    1. If the article was correct and not misleading, the idea that simply holding an informal and unofficial ceremony that was not legal could not possibly be illegal as it would be a hard violation of freedom of speech. No doubt about that.

    2. Since this wasn't major network news and because you don't hear democrats all over the media SMASHING the republican for freedom of speech violations, you can rest assured that the implication of the article was wrong. There is no WAY the democrat party would overlook an opportunity this good if there was substance behind the Chinese Whispers.

    It's a good test to apply to anything from obscure politically slanted propaganda generation sites. Propaganda is much like anything else.... If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

    Maybe, just maybe - that whole Lamestream Liberal Media thing is an invention of a certain segment of the population. Here's an Indiana newspaper site with an article dated July 6, 2013

    Penalties await gay couples trying to marry in Indiana
    NDIANAPOLIS | A same-sex couple applying for a marriage license in Indiana, where gay marriage is expressly prohibited by law, could face up to three years in prison for submitting the application to their county clerk -- even if it's denied.

    A 1997 state law declares it a Class D felony to submit false information on a marriage license application or lie about the physical condition, including gender, of a marriage license applicant.

    Two men or two women seeking to marry inevitably would trigger the law, as the state's electronic marriage license application specifically designates "male applicant" and "female applicant" sections for gathering required background data.
    <snip>
    The law also penalizes a clergyman, judge, mayor, city clerk or town clerk-treasurer who solemnizes a marriage between two people of the same gender. Those who conduct a gay marriage ceremony can be charged with a Class B misdemeanor, punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a fine of up to $1,000.

    Papa bull wrote:
    It's a good test to apply to anything from obscure politically slanted propaganda generation sites. Propaganda is much like anything else.... If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.
    You mean like breitbart.com or the worldnetdaily.com?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Maybe, just maybe - that whole Lamestream Liberal Media thing is an invention of a certain segment of the population. Here's an Indiana newspaper site with an article dated July 6, 2013

    Penalties await gay couples trying to marry in Indiana


    Papa bull wrote:
    You mean like breitbart.com or the worldnetdaily.com?
    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    No, its not even close. You folks keep up your one party war on women, blacks, Hispanics, gays and you win this hands down! May I say that as a Democrat, I'm delighted by your positions on these issues - especially the regressive stance taken by the House Republicans on immigration reform. If these guys were any dumber, they'd be libertarians.
    Libertarians are generally not dumb enough to be Republicans and defiantly not dumb enough to be Democrats.


    And historically Democrats were the the ones who stood in the way of women, blacks, hispanics, and gays. Republicans were not that stalwart back then but even back then too many wanted to be liked by their political enemies.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Libertarians are generally not dumb enough to be Republicans and defiantly not dumb enough to be Democrats.

    Accusations of dumbness work better when one's comment isn't dumb
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Accusations of dumbness work better when one's comment isn't dumb
    I was responding to a post by Wiggen. Note the Underlined

    No, its not even close. You folks keep up your one party war on women, blacks, Hispanics, gays and you win this hands down! May I say that as a Democrat, I'm delighted by your positions on these issues - especially the regressive stance taken by the House Republicans on immigration reform. If these guys were any dumber, they'd be libertarians.
    It would be dumb for a libertarian to be a Republican since the Republican party does not stand up for what it core values are stated publicly and does have elements such as the neo-cons and some of the "religious right" which have authoritarian positions. And I said it would be defiantly be dumb for a libertarian to be a Democrat since the Democrats are almost wholly authoritarian.

    If you want to do an accusation of being dumb take it up with Wiggen
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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