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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

  1. #381
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    They do migrate spontaneously in response to population pressure, which was the overall point.
    A lot of species will migrate in response to population pressure. What's the relevance to the topic of homosexual behavior genesis (which isn't the original topic of this thread but seems to be where it has landed).
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    From much experience with gay people I am also convinced that some are born that way and some end up that way due to psycho-social factors. How much of the latter is influenced by the former remains to be seen.

    But why is really irrelevant. Live and let live.

    I don't tell others how to live their lives because it lets me get all bent out of shape when someone tries to tell me how to live mine.

    I agree with all that. I simply don't agree that homosexual marriage is a right. Essentially, homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle and I think an alternative to marriage is quite appropriate as a solution to whatever challenges homosexual parnters face due to inadequate legal framework for their relationships.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    A lot of species will migrate in response to population pressure. What's the relevance to the topic of homosexual behavior genesis (which isn't the original topic of this thread but seems to be where it has landed).
    That some behaviors lie "dormant" until environmental factors trigger them. Species that migrate under population pressures don't when those pressures don't exist.

    And that these types of migrations are for survival of the species not the individual, who may die during the migration.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    That some behaviors lie "dormant" until environmental factors trigger them. Species that migrate under population pressures don't when those pressures don't exist.

    And that these types of migrations are for survival of the species not the individual, who may die during the migration.
    I don't think lemming migration is a "dormant behavior". It's merely a natural response to overpopulation, rather than a "latent behavior" waiting to be triggered by environmental stimuli.

    http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp

    But even if this was some sort of latent behavior waiting for a species wide stimulus, that wouldn't explain homosexuality, which is a behavior that has been represented in some small measure throughout recorded history and not in spasms and spurts as events triggered this latency.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Right. You've got "science" on your side. "Science" seems to be on every side of this debate.

    I have struggled to find any evidence that behavior must have an evolutionary benefit in order to exist. Can you please point out where in the article that was nailed down? I did read the article and didn't see anything that supported such a statement.
    Yes, I do have science on my side.
    and no, science does not know, as yet anyway, just why homosexuality has survived the process of evolution.

    So?
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I don't think lemming migration is a "dormant behavior". It's merely a natural response to overpopulation, rather than a "latent behavior" waiting to be triggered by environmental stimuli.

    snopes.com: White Wilderness Lemmings Suicide

    But even if this was some sort of latent behavior waiting for a species wide stimulus, that wouldn't explain homosexuality, which is a behavior that has been represented in some small measure throughout recorded history and not in spasms and spurts as events triggered this latency.
    These kinds of things have to do with populations, not entire species.

    All the deer in the world don't migrate when one valleys population triggers migratory behavior.

    And being "out" is certainly more likely in cultures that accept it than in those that consider it a capital offense. So historical context is difficult.

    And as I've said, I'm don't think ALL people who self identify as "gay" were born that way or even with a strong predisposition.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, I do have science on my side.
    and no, science does not know, as yet anyway, just why homosexuality has survived the process of evolution.

    So?

    Just asking for clarification that the science on your side doesn't know why homosexuality survived the process of evolution. That's all. Thanks for being straight up about that. Most in this discussion aren't so honest.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I agree with all that. I simply don't agree that homosexual marriage is a right. Essentially, homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle and I think an alternative to marriage is quite appropriate as a solution to whatever challenges homosexual parnters face due to inadequate legal framework for their relationships.
    One could argue that heterosexual marriage isn't a "right" either.

    Personally, I think "marriage" should be religions version and "civil union" be EVERYBODY'S legal status.

    Removes "marriage" from the states purview and makes all unions equal under the law.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    These kinds of things have to do with populations, not entire species.

    All the deer in the world don't migrate when one valleys population triggers migratory behavior.

    And being "out" is certainly more likely in cultures that accept it than in those that consider it a capital offense. So historical context is difficult.

    And as I've said, I'm don't think ALL people who self identify as "gay" were born that way or even with a strong predisposition.
    I agree. Not all people who self identify as gay are born that way or even with a strong disposition. I doubt that it's something as simple as a natural response to some external stimuli, which is what we see in creatures that move due to overcrowding. That's just a natural response to insufficient space and resources. Virtually everything responds that way to overcrowding, not because it's programmed into us, but because it's simply the alternative to starving. When the land can't support you, you move. (unless you live in the Sudan and are getting handouts from the rest of the world).
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Just asking for clarification that the science on your side doesn't know why homosexuality survived the process of evolution. That's all. Thanks for being straight up about that. Most in this discussion aren't so honest.
    Thanks.

    That article that you read listed several possibilities as to why homosexuality has survived. It's all speculation at this point.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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