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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

  1. #371
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yeah, slivers of information like the definition of "scientific theory".

    One last time. Show me where any of the "theories" you've posted links to has been accepted and validated as a scientific theory. I've been asking this for a half a dozen posts or so and you keep coming back with obfusctation instead of the proof you need to maintain your position that there is a valid homosexual genesis THEORY. You know... the sort of "theory" that you can put on the same level of faith as evolution, relativity or fluid mechanics; the sort of "theory" that you can claim to be the default truth instead of a mere postulate that has yet to be properly tested by scientific method.
    I'm well aware of the definition of "scientific theory" if that's what you're trying to imply.

    You ask for proof when dealing with science? How ignorant. I've presented this repeatedly but you refuse to read it. Those papers all contain evidence, you just seem to not want to read them. And, yes, it has been tested by the scientific method .... that's why there are scientific papers on the matters.
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  2. #372
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Many behaviors have a genetic origin. ALL instinctive ones do.
    I agree.

    Humans are able to accept or reject "instinctive" behaviors. But that doesn't mean we don't have them.
    I agree again.

    Lemmings don't ALWAYS run off the cliff, just when population gets too dense. Running off a cliff isn't an INDIVIDUAL survival trait but a SPECIES one.
    Actually, it's not a "trait" at all, let alone a survival trait. The misconception that lemmings leap off cliffs to commit suicide when populations get too dense has been throughly debunked. In fact, the film that popularized it "White Wilderness" won an academy award but faked the "mass suicides". It faked the mass migration and actually had lemmings launched off the cliffs with a turntable. Interesting even if it's not got much to do with the topic at hand.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  3. #373
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I disagree that for a behavioral trait to survive that it must have an evolutionary advantage. It is behavior. If it is genetic, it would likely not survive at all and I think we can eliminate genetics as the cause. If you can't think of any behavioral traits that humans have that have no evolutionary advantage, let me suggest a few: drug use, incest, pedophelia, suicide. These are things people have been doing for all of recorded history without any evolutionary advantage associated with them.

    On another note... why is any study that supports one's own theories presented as what "science has to say", as though anything any "scientist" or group of "scientists" postulates is the official message of "science"? Whassupwithat?
    Good to know that you disagree.


    You're still wrong, of course, but by all means, disagree away. Lots of people disagree with science, while using automobiles, airplanes, computers, and, of course, fire.

    Oh, and I'd be willing to bet that you didn't read the article I linked to.
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  4. #374
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I'm well aware of the definition of "scientific theory" if that's what you're trying to imply.

    You ask for proof when dealing with science? How ignorant.
    There is nothing ignorant about asking for proof when dealing with science.

    But there is something ignorant about insinuating valid scientific theory when "proposed hypothesis" is actually correct. There is no settled science on the genesis of homosexuality. That's why there are so many qualifiers used when discussing what people "think" or "believe" causes homosexuality. Science still doesn't know, despite lots of "theories" that aren't actually validated theories at all.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  5. #375
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    There is nothing ignorant about asking for proof when dealing with science.

    But there is something ignorant about insinuating valid scientific theory when "proposed hypothesis" is actually correct. There is no settled science on the genesis of homosexuality. That's why there are so many qualifiers used when discussing what people "think" or "believe" causes homosexuality. Science still doesn't know, despite lots of "theories" that aren't actually validated theories at all.
    Science doesn't dwell in "proof" - proofs are for logic, mathematics, and law. Try again.

    And, it's further than a proposed hypothesis. A hypothesis has not been tested. Again, read those papers - they have evidence within them.
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    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
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  6. #376
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Seems like the "harem" phenomenon might have something to do with it.

    The strongest males claiming all the women for themselves.

    Leaves a bunch of males with no sexual outlet and a bunch of women with only one between them.

    Over thousands of generations, a homosexual "option" for those not getting any or enough may serve to strengthen a social animal as a species, if not as an individual.

    Doesn't much animal homosexuality manifest when population densities are high or male/female ratios are severely out of balance?
    That is entirely possible. While there is a lot of speculation on why homosexuality has survived evolutionary processes, it is manifestly certain that it has. Your idea is as good as any.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I agree.



    I agree again.



    Actually, it's not a "trait" at all, let alone a survival trait. The misconception that lemmings leap off cliffs to commit suicide when populations get too dense has been throughly debunked. In fact, the film that popularized it "White Wilderness" won an academy award but faked the "mass suicides". It faked the mass migration and actually had lemmings launched off the cliffs with a turntable. Interesting even if it's not got much to do with the topic at hand.
    They do migrate spontaneously in response to population pressure, which was the overall point.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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  8. #378
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    It is merely your opinion that he never saw Jesus.

    It is the "opinion" of many biblical scholars that Paul, who was once Saul, never saw Jesus in the flesh. Knowing him only from visions, the first of which was on the "road to Damascus"

    Then we have the story as told in Act 9:3-7 (Authorized KJV)
    3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
    4 and he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
    5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
    6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
    7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

    NIV
    3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.

    4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

    5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

    “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.

    6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

    7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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  9. #379
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Good to know that you disagree.


    You're still wrong, of course, but by all means, disagree away. Lots of people disagree with science, while using automobiles, airplanes, computers, and, of course, fire.

    Oh, and I'd be willing to bet that you didn't read the article I linked to.
    Right. You've got "science" on your side. "Science" seems to be on every side of this debate.

    I have struggled to find any evidence that behavior must have an evolutionary benefit in order to exist. Can you please point out where in the article that was nailed down? I did read the article and didn't see anything that supported such a statement.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That is entirely possible. While there is a lot of speculation on why homosexuality has survived evolutionary processes, it is manifestly certain that it has. Your idea is as good as any.
    From much experience with gay people I am also convinced that some are born that way and some end up that way due to psycho-social factors. How much of the latter is influenced by the former remains to be seen.

    But why is really irrelevant. Live and let live.

    I don't tell others how to live their lives because it lets me get all bent out of shape when someone tries to tell me how to live mine.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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