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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The question of the evolutionary advantage of homosexuality has been the subject of a lot of study, and much speculation. The bottom line is that no one really knows how, but, for homosexuality to have survived, it must have some sort of survival advantage.


    Here's a discussion, for anyone willing to take the time to read what science has to say about the issue:

    The Evolutionary Mystery of Homosexuality

    Some excerpts:

    First the mystery.
    Seems like the "harem" phenomenon might have something to do with it.

    The strongest males claiming all the women for themselves.

    Leaves a bunch of males with no sexual outlet and a bunch of women with only one between them.

    Over thousands of generations, a homosexual "option" for those not getting any or enough may serve to strengthen a social animal as a species, if not as an individual.

    Doesn't much animal homosexuality manifest when population densities are high or male/female ratios are severely out of balance?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Links aren't smokescreens. They are scientific explorations in to the very think you denounce. You not liking something is not evidence there's not a validated theory. Now, read those papers, please. If you have any critcisms of the papers (after you've read them, of course) then why don't you bring it up? Perhaps you could get a grant and do research - just kidding, you're no scientist.
    There is no validated scientific theory. There are many hypothesis ranging from psychological to biological. But there is no true scientific theory. Why are you so reluctant to admit this true fact?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    There is no validated scientific theory. There are many hypothesis ranging from psychological to biological. But there is no true scientific theory. Why are you so reluctant to admit this true fact?
    I'm reluctant to admit it because it's not true. Those "hypotheses" aren't hypotheses at all, but are theory based on evidence. The theory includes genetics, epigenetics, and environmental factors - why are you so reluctant to admit this?
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Seems like the "harem" phenomenon might have something to do with it.

    The strongest males claiming all the women for themselves.

    Leaves a bunch of males with no sexual outlet and a bunch of women with only one between them.

    Over thousands of generations, a homosexual "option" for those not getting any or enough may serve to strengthen a social animal as a species, if not as an individual.

    Doesn't much animal homosexuality manifest when population densities are high or male/female ratios are severely out of balance?
    It does seem to be a behavioral phenomenon much more than a biological imperative. Your example seems to have a parallel in prison environments.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I'm reluctant to admit it because it's not true. Those "hypotheses" aren't hypotheses at all, but are theory based on evidence. The theory includes genetics, epigenetics, and environmental factors - why are you so reluctant to admit this?
    If you want to equate your multiple "theories" of homosexual genesis to actual validated scientific theory, there is no point in debate because honest debate is not possible if you cannot accept true facts.

    Here is how a SCIENTIST explains their research.

    “It’s not genetics. It’s not DNA. It’s not pieces of DNA. It’s epigenetics,” says Sergey Gavrilets, a NIMBioS researcher and an author on the paper that outlines the new theory of homosexuality, published in The Quarterly Review of Biology. “The hypothesis we put forward is based on epigenetic marks,” he says.

    Read more: New Insight into the (Epi)Genetic Roots of Homosexuality | TIME.com
    Note that the SCIENTIST calls it what it really is: A hypothesis. Note that the article wrongly calls it a "theory" many times in spite of that FACT. Note that the researcher, himself, states that it is NOT genetics. It's not DNA. It's not even a part of DNA. Not according to their research. They do have a hypothesis, but it's certainly not a "theory".

    If you want to pretend to be discussing this rationally, you should at least try to understand the words you are using and their implications. If you want to pretend to honestly discuss this, then you should at least acknowledge true facts when presented.

    At this point, I am convinced you are not interested in either honest OR rational discussion on this. And the pretense of either one is utterly transparent.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Two persons "who love each other" can form a club and join it together. There now, they're joined.

    Marriage hover, is for eligible and willing men and women. Only Moderns would need these things explained.

    I'll ask it again; (bigger this time, maybe you missed it before as you didn't answer the question)

    How does legal same sex marriage harm you and yours?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    If you want to equate your multiple "theories" of homosexual genesis to actual validated scientific theory, there is no point in debate because honest debate is not possible if you cannot accept true facts.

    Here is how a SCIENTIST explains their research.
    Again, you don't post the journal articles? Why is that? It's also strange the own author uses theory. Oh, and by the way, that study was already published - before your little non-scientific piece was. That shows how informed you are. JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

    Note that the SCIENTIST calls it what it really is: A hypothesis. Note that the article wrongly calls it a "theory" many times in spite of that FACT. Note that the researcher, himself, states that it is NOT genetics. It's not DNA. It's not even a part of DNA. Not according to their research. They do have a hypothesis, but it's certainly not a "theory".

    If you want to pretend to be discussing this rationally, you should at least try to understand the words you are using and their implications. If you want to pretend to honestly discuss this, then you should at least acknowledge true facts when presented.

    At this point, I am convinced you are not interested in either honest OR rational discussion on this.
    Again, very strange he says it's not DNA. One of the very own sources from the publication states that " Nonetheless, there is now clear evidence that environmentally induced epigenetic modifications of genes expressed in male mice (e.g., DNA methylation; Franklin et al. 2010) that feminize their brains and behavior can be transgenerationally inherited by their offspring (Morgan and Bale 2011)." Source and source.

    You've just shown you are not really interested in honest debate, but will find slivers of information that help you back up your misguided opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    You've just shown you are not really interested in honest debate, but will find slivers of information that help you back up your misguided opinion.
    Yeah, slivers of information like the definition of "scientific theory".

    A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step—known as a theory—in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid - See more at: What is a Scientific Theory? | Definition of Theory | LiveScience
    One last time. Show me where any of the "theories" you've posted links to has been accepted and validated as a scientific theory. I've been asking this for a half a dozen posts or so and you keep coming back with obfusctation instead of the proof you need to maintain your position that there is a valid homosexual genesis THEORY. You know... the sort of "theory" that you can put on the same level of faith as evolution, relativity or fluid mechanics; the sort of "theory" that you can claim to be the default truth instead of a mere postulate that has yet to be properly tested by scientific method.
    Last edited by Papa bull; 07-17-13 at 02:40 PM.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I was wrong about the fact that none of the apostles had met Paul. (Some had.) I was not wrong about the fact that Paul never met Jesus. He claims to have had a vision of Jesus (and even that is sketchy). I'm willing to bet that he was able to convince the apostles he did meet of what he believed and then started manipulating them, considering they knew he never actually met Jesus. People were much less skeptical back then. Someone said they saw Jesus and he spoke to them, they were probably very likely to believe them (especially those who themselves believed that they saw Jesus after his death).

    Things that people write are almost certainly going to have them appear to be in the right, the person on the positive or just side of a situation. We see this in the Bible. It is all just opinions of men. It includes their biases, prejudices, personal beliefs, insecurities, and faults.
    It is merely your opinion that he never saw Jesus.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    It does seem to be a behavioral phenomenon much more than a biological imperative. Your example seems to have a parallel in prison environments.
    Many behaviors have a genetic origin. ALL instinctive ones do.

    Humans are able to accept or reject "instinctive" behaviors. But that doesn't mean we don't have them.

    Lemmings don't ALWAYS run off the cliff, just when population gets too dense. Running off a cliff isn't an INDIVIDUAL survival trait but a SPECIES one.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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