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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

  1. #331
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The straight facts are:

    1. Science isn't sure about the cause of homosexuality.
    2. Some research "points to" hormones in the womb.
    3. Other research "points to" epi-genetics rather than genetics.
    4. The bottom line is that there is no factual answer, but actual genetics is not on top of the suspect list.

    There has been a lot of study.... still no conclusive answers; just lots of theory. I think the reason why we don't know is because there isn't any single "cause" to isolate and identify. For many, it's just a choice, just as it was in the days when Romans and Greeks were gaily cavorting with same-sex partners willy-nilly.
    Everything is theories, especially when it comes to personality traits and the influence of genes on those traits. It is almost certainly a combination of many factors. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if it is genetic or not, it still wouldn't be a choice. That is simply not how traits work, even if no genetic connection could be proven to any personality trait.

    No it isn't just a choice because you still do not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual behavior (as is obvious from your Romans and Greeks comment).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The other apostles didn't know Paul. He claims this, but truly there is no proof of it. Plus, there is no way that you can know even if they did know Paul that they approved because they didn't give signs of approval for what the others wrote and what got put into the Bible itself from those writings.

    Yes, the early church and many churches even now believe this based on the beliefs of Paul mainly.

    Yes, it is Paul's views on sex. And he absolutely is a sexist pig. He talks about women being less than men in much of his writings.

    It is the
    2 Peter 3:14-16
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  3. #333
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Yeah I should have put quotes around "sick".. IMO, the mere fact that you consider a ceremony joining two persons who love each other to be "sick" indicates a non-rational belief.


    Pray tell, how does legal same sex marriage harm you and yours?
    Two persons "who love each other" can form a club and join it together. There now, they're joined.

    Marriage hover, is for eligible and willing men and women. Only Moderns would need these things explained.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

  4. #334
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if it is genetic or not, it still wouldn't be a choice.
    It matters that it's not genetics if you're arguing that it is, in fact, genetic.

    No it isn't just a choice because you still do not understand the difference between homosexuality and homosexual behavior (as is obvious from your Romans and Greeks comment).
    We certainly see that it can be a choice. Only in recent days has there been politically motvated attempt to prove that it's "inborn". The reason for that is obvious, of course. If you can prove it's an immutable characteristic, then you can establish homosexuality as a suspect class quite easily and, therefore, be able to put forward a solid argument that the supreme court must force states to accept homosexual marriage.

    But in spite of all the effort put into this, there is still no proof that homosexuality is actually inborn; just lots of debatable theory and I use the word "theory" loosely (just as you do) because it's actually not nearly so solid as true theory. We both know that a gaggle of loose theories about the cause of homosexuality can't be equated to the theory of relativity or the theory of evolution or the theory of fluid mechanics. Those are long accepted theory and not shots in the dark by modern researchers grasping for straws.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  5. #335
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    So should all states make incest legal too? Why should family members not enter into a contract? Your argument isn't logical.
    Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?
    Can you demonstrate harm caused by homosexual marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Two persons "who love each other" can form a club and join it together. There now, they're joined.

    Marriage hover, is for eligible and willing men and women. Only Moderns would need these things explained.
    You failed to answer the question about harm caused by same-sex marriage. If the government cannot show an interest in maintaining this gender-based distinction, then they shouldn't maintain it. But I guess that's just the small government, personal liberty part of me talking.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  6. #336
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Everything is theories
    I have a theory that the less a progressive knows about a subject the more likely they are to pontificate on that subject.

    There. Don't argue with me. It's a theory. Everything is a theory and, therefore, you can't dismiss anything anyone "theorizes" because... well.. it's "theory".
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?
    Can you demonstrate harm caused by homosexual marriage?



    You failed to answer the question about harm caused by same-sex marriage. If the government cannot show an interest in maintaining this gender-based distinction, then they shouldn't maintain it. But I guess that's just the small government, personal liberty part of me talking.
    Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The straight facts are:

    1. Science isn't sure about the cause of homosexuality.
    2. Some research "points to" hormones in the womb.
    3. Other research "points to" epi-genetics rather than genetics.
    4. The bottom line is that there is no factual answer, but actual genetics is not on top of the suspect list.

    There has been a lot of study.... still no conclusive answers; just lots of theory. I think the reason why we don't know is because there isn't any single "cause" to isolate and identify. For many, it's just a choice, just as it was in the days when Romans and Greeks were gaily cavorting with same-sex partners willy-nilly.
    Can you find me someone who consciously chose to be attracted to the same gender?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  9. #339
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Can you find me someone who consciously chose to be attracted to the same gender?
    Cynthia Nixon, for one. For obvious reasons, most homosexuals would rather run buck nekked through a rose patch than admit that it's choice, but there are some that still will admit it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Can you demonstrate harm caused by incestuous marriage?
    As expected, you dodged the questions.

    I can't personally demonstrate harm caused by either. However, I will readily admit I haven't looked into research on the impacts of incestuous relationships and/or marriage. Feel free to post some in a different thread, because this thread is about same-sex marriage. I have read the research there.

    If someone were to show me demonstrable harm from same-sex marriage, I might reconsider my opinion on it. To date, nobody has managed to do that. Even arguing before the Supreme Court, Prop 8 supporters were unable to demonstrate any harm when directly asked about it. These are the legal experts hired by the religious folks against same-sex marriage to take up the case all the way to the highest court in the land. They were asked directly whether there was any harm in same-sex marriage. They tried to avoid the question. Because they had no answer.

    And neither do you.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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