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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

  1. #321
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Ad hominem. Of course you disagree with the source, but that doesn't amount to refutation.
    Cause it's non-scientific... Way to address absolutely none of my post, really, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
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  2. #322
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Which is talking about pederasty, not homosexuality. You prove that it was a biased/lazy translation and that what is actually being said to be a sin is pederasty, a man having an intimate relationship with a boy, rather than two adult men or women having a relationship.
    Fine, if you don't want to use that passage let's look to Romans chapter 1.

    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  3. #323
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    You really believe that studies showing identical twins are more likely to be homosexual than just full siblings is proof of a genetic component? Seriously? Do you really think you can point to whatever common denominators you wish as a "causal effect". Like insurance studies that show red cars have the highest incidence of accidents is proof that red is an unlucky color?

    And the funny thing is that I think it would be great if it was genetic. Then medical science could correct the genetic problem that causes it. And then this whole discussion would be moot point. Thing is... it's not genetic. There will never be a "genetic cure" for homosexuality because genes didn't cause the problem in the first place.
    It is proof that genes play a part in it. You are free to show your ignorance about how genes work in affecting our personalities all you wish, but it doesn't change the fact that they do. It is a combination of nature and nurture, just like most things, but genes (several different ones) are still part of the equation.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #324
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Fine, if you don't want to use that passage let's look to Romans chapter 1.
    You are quoting Paul, someone who I personally believe was very biased and not at all inspired by God or even Jesus. He had no idea what he was talking about. So yes, I will attack the "messenger" when that particular messenger was a misogynist who also believed that pretty much all forms of sex were a sin and that only sex with the sole purpose of producing children was acceptable.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #325
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I'm sure that they'll be free to perform their sick little ceremony. But hopefully, the law won't compel normal people to recognize any legal validity to it.

    Drop the bigotry induced blindness and take the time to read the statute as written. It it is rather specific when it states that a minister/preacher/rabbi/imam could be jailed for a period up to 180 days, if said religious functionary performs (solemnizes) a marriage ceremony that is not permitted under Indiana law They will NOT be free to perform their sick little ceremony

    I'm not sure I would apply the adjective "normal" to religious bigots. More Americans approve of gay marriage than disapprove
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are quoting Paul, someone who I personally believe was very biased and not at all inspired by God or even Jesus. He had no idea what he was talking about. So yes, I will attack the "messenger" when that particular messenger was a misogynist who also believed that pretty much all forms of sex were a sin and that only sex with the sole purpose of producing children was acceptable.
    1. Mischaracterization of Paul
    2. If you don't accept his portion of INSPIRED Scripture, that is your deal.
    3. The other apostles accepted Paul's writings.
    4. So did the early church and through the centuries.
    5. Not Paul's views on sex.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  7. #327
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is proof that genes play a part in it. You are free to show your ignorance about how genes work in affecting our personalities all you wish, but it doesn't change the fact that they do. It is a combination of nature and nurture, just like most things, but genes (several different ones) are still part of the equation.
    The straight facts are:

    1. Science isn't sure about the cause of homosexuality.
    2. Some research "points to" hormones in the womb.
    3. Other research "points to" epi-genetics rather than genetics.
    4. The bottom line is that there is no factual answer, but actual genetics is not on top of the suspect list.

    There has been a lot of study.... still no conclusive answers; just lots of theory. I think the reason why we don't know is because there isn't any single "cause" to isolate and identify. For many, it's just a choice, just as it was in the days when Romans and Greeks were gaily cavorting with same-sex partners willy-nilly.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  8. #328
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    1. Mischaracterization of Paul
    2. If you don't accept his portion of INSPIRED Scripture, that is your deal.
    3. The other apostles accepted Paul's writings.
    4. So did the early church and through the centuries.
    5. Not Paul's views on sex.
    The other apostles didn't know Paul. He claims this, but truly there is no proof of it. Plus, there is no way that you can know even if they did know Paul that they approved because they didn't give signs of approval for what the others wrote and what got put into the Bible itself from those writings.

    Yes, the early church and many churches even now believe this based on the beliefs of Paul mainly.

    Yes, it is Paul's views on sex. And he absolutely is a sexist pig. He talks about women being less than men in much of his writings.

    It is the
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #329
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Drop the bigotry induced blindness and take the time to read the statute as written. It it is rather specific when it states that a minister/preacher/rabbi/imam could be jailed for a period up to 180 days, if said religious functionary performs (solemnizes) a marriage ceremony that is not permitted under Indiana law They will NOT be free to perform their sick little ceremony

    I'm not sure I would apply the adjective "normal" to religious bigots. More Americans approve of gay marriage than disapprove
    At least we're agreed that these are sick little ceremonies.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

  10. #330
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    At least we're agreed that these are sick little ceremonies.

    Yeah I should have put quotes around "sick".. IMO, the mere fact that you consider a ceremony joining two persons who love each other to be "sick" indicates a non-rational belief.


    Pray tell, how does legal same sex marriage harm you and yours?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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