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Thread: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

  1. #231
    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You ask me to show you the problem and then you have an issue with me showing you the problem?

    The discussion is that Jesus didn't write the Bible, men did. So if you believe that Jesus is God, you are still only getting Jesus' words second hand, through witnesses, not from the source. And witnesses are unreliable sources of information due to human failings.
    You forget about inspiration though....
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  2. #232
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Dodging the question I see. That is still forbidding adults to go into a contract, which was the problem you had with my position about homosexuals.
    I can prove that sex does play a supposed role in marriage. Just look at how we investigate for marriage fraud. And incestuous sexual relationships are illegal. I didn't "dodge" at all. You simply don't like my answer because it shows the disconnect between same sex relationships and incest relationships.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You forget about inspiration though....
    Inspiration cannot be proven. You cannot prove that any writer in the Bible was completely "inspired" to write what they did by God or Jesus. No "forgetting" involved. It is called logic.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #234
    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I can prove that sex does play a supposed role in marriage. Just look at how we investigate for marriage fraud. And incestuous sexual relationships are illegal. I didn't "dodge" at all. You simply don't like my answer because it shows the disconnect between same sex relationships and incest relationships.
    Not all states have incest as being illegal. So what do you say then?
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Inspiration cannot be proven. You cannot prove that any writer in the Bible was completely "inspired" to write what they did by God or Jesus. No "forgetting" involved. It is called logic.
    You cannot prove otherwise.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You cannot prove otherwise.
    You can not prove a negative.
    So, let's assume that the Bible was inspired. Was the whole thing, then, inspired? If so, what do you do with the stuff in Leviticus, where homosexuality is actually mentioned? If not, then where did Jesus condemn homosexuals?

    and back to accepting Christ and changing hearts and minds, I'll give you that one, too. I've seen it first hand, after all. But, is homosexuality in the heart and mind? If it is, then you have a point, but if it is a part of one's physical makup, then you don't.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Not all states have incest as being illegal. So what do you say then?
    Only one state does not outlaw any incest. But they still don't allow marriage because they already have a relationship that comes with many of the same rights as marriage. Maybe they will fight for marriage in those places where incest relationships are now legal (personally I think first cousins should be allowed to legally marry everywhere). But the states can still show legitimate state interests being furthered by not allowing people who are already within a certain degree of legal relationship to marry or by making certain familial relationships illegal. That is the key. The state must be able to show a legitimate state interest being furthered in any law or restriction within a law. They can't show this when it comes to restricting marriage based on sex/gender.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #238
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You cannot prove otherwise.
    As Ditto said, you can't prove a negative.

    But the way our laws work, you must show that the higher authority, God, actually said/believes that homosexuality is a sin. And using the words of other men is not proof. Using what you believe, but cannot prove, was inspired by God, is not proof.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #239
    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    You can not prove a negative.
    So, let's assume that the Bible was inspired. Was the whole thing, then, inspired? If so, what do you do with the stuff in Leviticus, where homosexuality is actually mentioned? If not, then where did Jesus condemn homosexuals?

    and back to accepting Christ and changing hearts and minds, I'll give you that one, too. I've seen it first hand, after all. But, is homosexuality in the heart and mind? If it is, then you have a point, but if it is a part of one's physical makup, then you don't.
    Heart and mind yes. As far as Leviticus, homosexuality is also discussed in Romans, Corinthians, and Galatians in the New Testament. Jesus' words are not the only things in the New Testament that Christians follow.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana GOP passes law making it a crime for clergy to perform gay weddings

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Only one state does not outlaw any incest. But they still don't allow marriage because they already have a relationship that comes with many of the same rights as marriage. Maybe they will fight for marriage in those places where incest relationships are now legal (personally I think first cousins should be allowed to legally marry everywhere). But the states can still show legitimate state interests being furthered by not allowing people who are already within a certain degree of legal relationship to marry or by making certain familial relationships illegal. That is the key. The state must be able to show a legitimate state interest being furthered in any law or restriction within a law. They can't show this when it comes to restricting marriage based on sex/gender.
    Degradation of society and increase in immorality.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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