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Thread: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

  1. #71
    Spectemur Agendo Trip's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    See, this is what I'm not getting.

    The law CLEARLY indicates that amnesty is not possible unless those metrics are met. For Obama to just "selectively apply" it, he'd be acting outside of what the law actually allows. If he wanted to do that, he could just do that NOW. The law specifically limits amnesty from being available UNTIL those security triggers are met to my understanding.

    Unless you're referring to Amnesty as the RPI status...the status that allows them to legally stay in the country but doesn't grant them citizenship or a green card. Is that what you're referring to as "amnesty" rather than the portion that allows them to become a citizen?

    I would say that one of my issues with this bill is I believe if the triggers AREN'T met by a certain time, than the RPI status should no longer be applicable and we should be using the information we gathered through registering as an RPI to find and deport those that would now once again be illegal. The "Trigger" needs to have a "result" both for if it IS met (they can begin the process of citizenship) and if it is NOT met (we begin deporting)
    The bill clearly and undeniably does not have any amnesty contingent upon any "metrics", ad repeatedly refused ANY and ALL amendments that required such security be met prior to acting on Amnesty.


    Obama would be acting outside of the law, and Obama HAS DONE THAT NOW with creating his own selective deportation standards, and claiming it is his authority under discretionary enforcement.


    Allow illegal aliens to remain in the country, is granting them legal status, ... to "legally stay in the country", as well as benefits. Amnesty is irrelevant to the actual reward of citizenship, but in fact eventually tied to that eventual reward, if you can call the wholesale application of citizenship to mass lawless persons that disregard our laws and sovereignty, as any sort of "reward".

    What it is, is a wholesale abrogation of federal responsibility, where the federal government has no actual constitutional authority over immigration, but fails to exercise its falsely claimed authority, while denying that legitimate authority and real interest to the states, is a gross violation of the Constitution in and of itself.

    Those "triggers" themselves are a joke, and each subject to discretion and corruption, and intentionally written to be corrupted.

    We should commence deportation now, along with the wall construction and other border security implementation, and then, and only then, begin to discuss what adjustments immigration law might need. But it certainly would not involve any enormous thorough restructuring resulting in a 2,000 page bill.

    The real underlying cause of all this insanity, utter perversion, from our federal government is the fact that the solvency of the dollar, and the American economy itself, involves an enormous Ponzi scheme due to the debt-based nature of the economy requiring the continual influx of more people and more debt.

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Dont answer a question with another question. Is a 3% cut draconian?

    Im asking you. So either you believe it is, which makes your rhetoric look silly, or it isnt and the cuts on the table arent draconian.

    So answer the question and think instead of parroting a buzzword.
    Yes it is draconiain considering the budget for the snap program.

  3. #73
    Spectemur Agendo Trip's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Dont answer a question with another question. Is a 3% cut draconian?

    Im asking you. So either you believe it is, which makes your rhetoric look silly, or it isnt and the cuts on the table arent draconian.

    So answer the question and think instead of parroting a buzzword.

    I'm not even sure it's an actual 3% cut from the existing expenditure, but rather a 3% cut from the projected growth.

    "If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    The bill clearly and undeniably does not have any amnesty contingent upon any "metrics", ad repeatedly refused ANY and ALL amendments that required such security be met prior to acting on Amnesty.
    Do you have a link for this? Every summary I've read on the passed bill suggests there are metrics. Namely 90% apprehension rate on the border, a plan created and being implimented for a border fence, full roll out of e-verify, etc.

    Again, unless you're suggesting the RPI status = Amnesty. Though I wasn't aware there were any amendments that were proposed that altered that status.

    As I said, I'm just researching what I can. If you have some kind of link to reference that there all aspects of the metrics have been removed I'd be glad to see it so I can better understand the bill that was passed.

    Obama would be acting outside of the law, and Obama HAS DONE THAT NOW with creating his own selective deportation standards, and claiming it is his authority under discretionary enforcement.
    That's I guess my point though. If the notion is that Obama will act outside the law regardless, then that part of the argument against the bill is kind of useless because it's suggesting he'd do what he wants REGARDLESS of hte bill being passed or not.

    Allow illegal aliens to remain in the country, is granting them legal status, ... to "legally stay in the country", as well as benefits.
    Gotcha, so you are equating the RPI status as "amnesty" despite it not giving them citizenship and hte rights associated with it.

    Do we have anything indicating one way or another they will get things like benefits? This is something I've asked people on both sides for and have searched for but haven't found an answer. As I said initially, WHAT is allowable under the RPI status is a big factor in my mind of supporting Boehner or not.

    Those "triggers" themselves are a joke, and each subject to discretion and corruption, and intentionally written to be corrupted.
    Now I'm confused because earlier you said there were no triggers...

    We should commence deportation now, along with the wall construction and other border security implementation, and then, and only then, begin to discuss what adjustments immigration law might need. But it certainly would not involve any enormous thorough restructuring resulting in a 2,000 page bill.
    Understand that thought. But it's akin to saying "We should remove marriage from the law entirely". The reality is that unless an unprecedented electoral victory occurs in 2016, the likelihood of getting an immigration bill that is essentially "100% republican ideas and desires in every way" is about as likely as me walking out side and discovering the sky is permanently tie dyed.

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Why can't border security and immigration reform be done at the same time?
    Because the two are not mutually inclusive, as the 20 million thieving illegals who trespassed into America are not immigrants, because the only way to be an immigrant in America is to be granted that status by the INS ..

    .. And, because we don't have a problem with our immigration policy but we do, obviously, have a problem with border security, as the presence of 20 million illegals in America does attest.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What security issues are left to be addressed?
    In addition to securing the borders to keep trespassers from getting in ..

    .. We need to get the 20 million thieving trespassers already here, out.


    John Boehner is becoming a patriotic American folk hero, not only in his killing of this egregious amnesty and legalization bill, a bill which is an obvious gross injustice to all American citizens, but now in his request that if corportations don't have to provide Obamacare for a year's delay, then individuals shouldn't have to be penalized tax-wise if they can't afford to spend on health insurance.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill - Ginger Gibson - POLITICO.com

    And we are back to the Republican house holding everything up again. Back to the good ol do nothing congress.. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Boehner is simply helping to ratify his parties already signed death warrant.
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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Because the two are not mutually inclusive, as the 20 million thieving illegals who trespassed into America are not immigrants, because the only way to be an immigrant in America is to be granted that status by the INS ..

    .. And, because we don't have a problem with our immigration policy but we do, obviously, have a problem with border security, as the presence of 20 million illegals in America does attest.



    In addition to securing the borders to keep trespassers from getting in ..

    .. We need to get the 20 million thieving trespassers already here, out.


    John Boehner is becoming a patriotic American folk hero, not only in his killing of this egregious amnesty and legalization bill, a bill which is an obvious gross injustice to all American citizens, but now in his request that if corportations don't have to provide Obamacare for a year's delay, then individuals shouldn't have to be penalized tax-wise if they can't afford to spend on health insurance.
    how can you force 20 million people to leave if they don't want to? are you suggesting we force them to leave at gunpoint?

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    how can you force 20 million people to leave if they don't want to? are you suggesting we force them to leave at gunpoint?
    Meaningless extremist reaction.

    You overlook the first-step obvious, understandably.

    We simply make a united effort to prevent transactions by illegals, no jobs, therefore no cash, no retail credit purchases, no healthcare except emergency life-saving, etc.

    They will then be supported by sympathizers in America for a short time, before they leave to return home to a more financially secure climate before the sympathizers' money runs out.

    It really is that simple.

    They deserve hard time for their trespassing and multiple felony thefts.

    That they will be getting off virtually unpunished, merely having to return the jobs, classrooms, living space, road space, etc., etc., etc., American resources they stole, they should feel very, very lucky.

    But, if they resist belligerently at that point, gunpoint may indeed be necessary.

    American citizens deserve no less of an effort.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Yes it is draconiain considering the budget for the snap program.
    So draconian.

    SNAP Growth.jpg

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill - Ginger Gibson - POLITICO.com

    And we are back to the Republican house holding everything up again. Back to the good ol do nothing congress.. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Well, at least you're consistent. Any time the House and the Senate don't agree on something, you immediately accuse the House of being obstuctionist or do nothing. Have you ever posted a thread about the do nothing, obstructionist Senate under Harry Reid?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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