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Thread: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    See, that's the issue OC.

    The "Carrots", other than simply being able to stya here, can't legally be enacted BY THIS LAW without the "Sticks" occuring. It would take an entirely new law amending this one to allow the end game "carrots" of a green card to occur without the sticks happening.
    If this bill contained the right security features, seems the conservatives would vote for it. So why aren't they?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's total bull****, he caves enough. When's the last time Reid gave in on something, hmmmm? I'll wait.
    I was talking about the speaker of the house, not the senate leadership.

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    If this bill contained the right security features, seems the conservatives would vote for it. So why aren't they?
    Lots of reasons an individual POLITICIAN may not vote for a bill.

    Fear of it being unpopular with their voting based regardless of what's in it.
    Fear of being able to properly sell it to their voting base.
    Adherance to what the party caucus majority desires.
    Disagreement on one particuliar security feature not being included.
    Disagreement with the presence of a a "pathway" to citizenship regardless of the security features.
    Disagreement with something like E-Verify that is included due to privacy issues.
    Belief that the party at large will benefit politically from not enacting the law.
    Distrust that the triggers will be met and thus it will be one giant financial waste.

    I could go on and on, but you can't seriously believe "If a Politician simply, on principle, agrees with a portion of a bill they will absolutely vote for it"

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    If this bill contained the right security features, seems the conservatives would vote for it. So why aren't they?
    Because the bill only provided lip-service to those security features, and as has occurred in the past, and is really only an amnesty bill.

    There is nothing to prohibit the President from selectively applying amnesty, while ignoring government's obligation to border security and policing, which by right of the Constitution does not even actually reside with the federal government itself, but with the various States.

    In short, it is nothing but more of the same, but now validating the same corruption under law, while giving aliens far more benefits than even U.S. citizens have, and creating an enormous budget liability for no benefit -- despite the bullcrap that the GAO indicates.

    And ultimately the enormous influx of nuevo citizens will totally skew the election process, making it impossible for our Republican system of governance to operate, exclusing those promoting this country's founding principles from being elected to anything above dog catcher, and ensuring our headlong plunge into not just Socialism, but Marxism and globalist dictate.

    Not only should it not be voted for, but those promoting it should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. This is not just a differing political perspective, but rather is the difference between our government acting legitimately, or acting in disregard for the general welfare of the union, the sovereignty of the several States, and the citizens themselves. It is nothing short of deliberate, calculating Treason.
    Last edited by Trip; 07-09-13 at 03:09 PM.

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Because the bill only provided lip-service to those security features, and as has occurred in the past, and is really only an amnesty bill.

    There is nothing to prohibit the President from selectively applying amnesty, while ignoring government's obligation to border security and policing, which by right of the Constitution does not even actually reside with the federal government itself, but with the various States.

    In short, it is nothing but more of the same, but now validating the same corruption under law, while giving aliens far more benefits than even U.S. citizens have, and creating an enormous budget liability for no benefit -- despite the bullcrap that the GAO indicates.

    And ultimately the enormous influx of nuevo citizens will totally skew the election process, making it impossible for our Republican system of governance to operate, exclusing those promoting this country's founding principles from being elected to anything above dog catcher, and ensuring our headlong plunge into not just Socialism, but Marxism and globalist dictate.

    Not only should it not be voted for, but those promoting it should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. This is not just a differing political perspective, but rather is the difference between our government acting legitimately, or acting in disregard for the general welfare of the union, the sovereignty of the several States, and the citizens themselves. It is nothing short of deliberate, calculating Treason.
    Why can't border security and immigration reform be done at the same time? What security issues are left to be addressed?

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Why can't border security and immigration reform be done at the same time? What security issues are left to be addressed?

    Because we have an established history of, not only this Oval Occupant, but previous Presidents having selectively applied the laws, under discretionary application, and not engaging what is stated under the law.

    Because border security has long had an obligation to be fulfilled, has been unconstitutionally denied the authority of the various States with the real territory being invaded, but has not been exercised by the federal government for decades. There is no assurance, much less obligation, that the Congress and Executive will be compelled to fulfill the recognitions regarding establishing real border security

    Because despite the repeated claim of needing urgent immigration reform, there is never any real indication of why this immigration reform is necessary, much less urgent.

    Because this immigration de facto amnesty not only overwhelms our already overburdened infrastructure and social services, but also entirely corrupts our electoral process, further corrupts our corrupt health care usurpation, and doesn't do a damn thing to solve any real problems, but will rather only exacerbate those problems, inclusive of creating even more pathways of chain immigration uncontrolled alien entry into this country.

    The only thing this immigration reform does is give illegal aliens a legal status in this country, along with entitlement to social services and benefits, even above and beyond longstanding U.S. citizens.

    This immigration reform does not solve any problems at all but actually only worsens existing problems, while creating whole new problems, corruptions, and avenues of entry into the country while creating an enormous economic hazard and obligation.

    THe fact is that illegal aliens not having any legal status in this country, is not a problem at all, but rather a necessary fact that is crucial to our national security and sovereignty.

    "If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

    ~ James Madison

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    Because we have an established history of, not only this Oval Occupant, but previous Presidents having selectively applied the laws, under discretionary application, and not engaging what is stated under the law.

    Because border security has long had an obligation to be fulfilled, has been unconstitutionally denied the authority of the various States with the real territory being invaded, but has not been exercised by the federal government for decades. There is no assurance, much less obligation, that the Congress and Executive will be compelled to fulfill the recognitions regarding establishing real border security

    Because despite the repeated claim of needing urgent immigration reform, there is never any real indication of why this immigration reform is necessary, much less urgent.

    Because this immigration de facto amnesty not only overwhelms our already overburdened infrastructure and social services, but also entirely corrupts our electoral process, further corrupts our corrupt health care usurpation, and doesn't do a damn thing to solve any real problems, but will rather only exacerbate those problems, inclusive of creating even more pathways of chain immigration uncontrolled alien entry into this country.

    The only thing this immigration reform does is give illegal aliens a legal status in this country, along with entitlement to social services and benefits, even above and beyond longstanding U.S. citizens.

    This immigration reform does not solve any problems at all but actually only worsens existing problems, while creating whole new problems, corruptions, and avenues of entry into the country while creating an enormous economic hazard and obligation.

    THe fact is that illegal aliens not having any legal status in this country, is not a problem at all, but rather a necessary fact that is crucial to our national security and sovereignty.
    Well the problem is you can't humanely force them to leave, and just putting a fence up and guarding it is not a solution either.

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Trip View Post
    There is nothing to prohibit the President from selectively applying amnesty, while ignoring government's obligation to border security and policing, which by right of the Constitution does not even actually reside with the federal government itself, but with the various States.
    See, this is what I'm not getting.

    The law CLEARLY indicates that amnesty is not possible unless those metrics are met. For Obama to just "selectively apply" it, he'd be acting outside of what the law actually allows. If he wanted to do that, he could just do that NOW. The law specifically limits amnesty from being available UNTIL those security triggers are met to my understanding.

    Unless you're referring to Amnesty as the RPI status...the status that allows them to legally stay in the country but doesn't grant them citizenship or a green card. Is that what you're referring to as "amnesty" rather than the portion that allows them to become a citizen?

    I would say that one of my issues with this bill is I believe if the triggers AREN'T met by a certain time, than the RPI status should no longer be applicable and we should be using the information we gathered through registering as an RPI to find and deport those that would now once again be illegal. The "Trigger" needs to have a "result" both for if it IS met (they can begin the process of citizenship) and if it is NOT met (we begin deporting)

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    See, this is what I'm not getting.

    The law CLEARLY indicates that amnesty is not possible unless those metrics are met. For Obama to just "selectively apply" it, he'd be acting outside of what the law actually allows. If he wanted to do that, he could just do that NOW. The law specifically limits amnesty from being available UNTIL those security triggers are met to my understanding.

    Unless you're referring to Amnesty as the RPI status...the status that allows them to legally stay in the country but doesn't grant them citizenship or a green card. Is that what you're referring to as "amnesty" rather than the portion that allows them to become a citizen?

    I would say that one of my issues with this bill is I believe if the triggers AREN'T met by a certain time, than the RPI status should no longer be applicable and we should be using the information we gathered through registering as an RPI to find and deport those that would now once again be illegal. The "Trigger" needs to have a "result" both for if it IS met (they can begin the process of citizenship) and if it is NOT met (we begin deporting)
    Ill put it this way. Hes already triggering what portions he wants to when it comes to the healthcare bill. There is precedent he will do what he wants on immigration.

    They arent giving Obama the chance to bite them twice. Cant blame em.

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    Re: John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What is the budget for the SNAP program.
    Dont answer a question with another question. Is a 3% cut draconian?

    Im asking you. So either you believe it is, which makes your rhetoric look silly, or it isnt and the cuts on the table arent draconian.

    So answer the question and think instead of parroting a buzzword.

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