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Thread: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I just watched ZERO DARK THIRTY and while this is a fictionalized account, it does show just how uncivilized torture is and while I'm glad the long term result was the execution of UBL, I'm sorry my country egregiously violated the basic laws of decency.

    Did UBL need to die? Yes. Was it worth dismissing the Geneva Convention for? I don't know. I can easily understand torture on the battlefield but long term? It's troubling.

    Looks like GITMO will be forever. Billions of dollars and loss of respect is the price we pay to keep just a very few people off the battlefield.
    Is torturing bad? Yes, of course? Is it effective? Yes, of course. Are we the only country that tortures? No, of course not. Can you name any country that has used torturing? Russia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, India, Cuba, Germany, U.K, etc. You are right torture is troubling.
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    while I think there are plenty of valid questions concerning Gitmo, leaving out the fact that 16% of those released have been confirmed as returning to terrorist activities is a bit, well, dishonest. The same with ignoring the list of "highly suspected" individuals is even higher
    I'm going to object to the "returning" to anything accusation.

    Since there was no evidence of these folks having been involved in terrorisim (or even militant Islam or plain ol' anti-American "freedom fighting") which ultimately resulted in their release from custody or detainee-isim or whatever it was with the determination having been made that they were never actually "enemy combatants" in the first place I think it's a real stretch to say that they "returned" to anything.

    I think it's probably very likely that a great many of them were like, "You wanna treat me like a terrorist? Well then **** you, I'ma go be a terrorist".

    I know that's what I would do if some foreign government took me prisoner, held me captive in a cage for a couple years, treated me like ****, maybe subjected me to "enhanced interogation" during the process of establishing that I was never a threat in the first place, and in the end was like, "Opps, our bad, hahaha, you're free to go. No hard feelings, amiritebro?".

    Let Canada do that to me and you bet your ass I'm gonna be blowing up Canadian school busses.

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I'm going to object to the "returning" to anything accusation.

    Since there was no evidence of these folks having been involved in terrorisim
    Not releasing such evidence, or prosecuting based on it, is not the same as such evidence not existing. And while I agree how the suspect collection has been handled is extremely troublesome on a number of levels, I do not have doubts that some do belong there.

    I think it's probably very likely that a great many of them were like, "You wanna treat me like a terrorist? Well then **** you, I'ma go be a terrorist".
    Indeed, likely the case in some situations, as well

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    As long as we are sure we are discussing the same thing, lets pursue this. I am negative toward the use of long term torture as opposed to on-the-spot torture.

    Why? Because with as many soldiers as we send out around the world, if one is captured, I don't want them tortured. I want to be outraged a nuke the mother****ers that tortured my countryman.

    But if my country uses torture, it's hard for me to be outraged.

    I'm not aware of any of our soldiers being tortured in the last decade or so. Am I wrong? Bergdahl is not reputed to have been tortured. The Taliban offered an exchange and we declined.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
    Is torturing bad? Yes, of course? Is it effective? Yes, of course. Are we the only country that tortures? No, of course not. Can you name any country that has used torturing? Russia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, India, Cuba, Germany, U.K, etc. You are right torture is troubling.

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I'm not aware of any of our soldiers being tortured in the last decade or so. Am I wrong? Bergdahl is not reputed to have been tortured. The Taliban offered an exchange and we declined.
    It very well could also be a by-product of low expectations: people might not be talking about POW treatment by the Taliban because no one expects them to be anything but brutal

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay...so? It's an uncomfortable and possibly painful experience.

    What are peoples preferences exactly?

    Shall we let those who go on hunger strike perish from lack of food? Is that preferred? If they do that, will the U.S. be called heartless and violators of human rights by letting these people starve to death?

    Shall we instead let anyone who goes "I'm going on a hunger strike" go? Simply free anyone who says "hunger strike"?

    Exactly what are you suggesting is done instead, because frankly this looks like nothing but a "I don't like GITMO, so I don't care what they do, I'm going to find a way to criticize them and demonize them for it".
    The only reason why I side with force feeding is because I'd be scared of guards selectively "forgetting" to feed certain people and claiming they died from hunger strike. The real answer is this place shouldn't even exist. But seeing as it does i rather them side with force fed so they cant let people die from hunger and claim it was a strike. I feel sorry for anyone who legitimately wants to strike for whatever reason (wrongly detained forever and wanting it to end comes to mind). But I'd feel worse for someone that was starved to death against their will and labeled a "crazy".
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    while I think there are plenty of valid questions concerning Gitmo, leaving out the fact that 16% of those released have been confirmed as returning to terrorist activities is a bit, well, dishonest. The same with ignoring the list of "highly suspected" individuals is even higher
    Source? The number i found was 4%...
    "If one accepts that all 18 on the "confirmed" list have returned to the battlefield, that would be 4 percent of the detainees who have been released, Bergen said."
    Security experts skeptical on Gitmo detainee report - CNN.com

    Does this somehow also justify us denying them their basic rights and us giving old lady justice a big ol slap in the face?


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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    "If one accepts that all 18 on the "confirmed" list have returned to the battlefield, that would be 4 percent of the detainees who have been released, Bergen said.

    Bergen also noted Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics data that show the recidivism rate for U.S. state prisoners who have been released is more than 65 percent. Those same numbers show that about half of the released prisoners are returned to prison.

    Bergen said that some of the prisoners at Guantanamo may not have been terrorists at all but were singled out by vengeful villagers who told U.S. authorities they were al Qaeda.

    "We know that a lot of people who were in Guantanamo don't qualify as being the 'worst of the worst,'" he said, quoting former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's assessment.

    Bergen said some of those "suspected" to have returned to terrorism are so categorized because they publicly made anti-American statements, "something that's not surprising if you've been locked up in a U.S. prison camp for several years."
    Security experts skeptical on Gitmo detainee report - CNN.com

    So this is what we are going to do.. We are going to hold some indefinitely because we cant prove they partook in terrorist activities, but we got a "hunch"? Talk about a bitch slap in the face of "justice".
    You also never answered my questions; So if they are terrorists why cant anyone charge them? Why are they cleared to be released?


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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    "If one accepts that all 18 on the "confirmed" list have returned to the battlefield, that would be 4 percent of the detainees who have been released, Bergen said.

    Bergen also noted Federal Bureau of Justice Statistics data that show the recidivism rate for U.S. state prisoners who have been released is more than 65 percent. Those same numbers show that about half of the released prisoners are returned to prison.

    Bergen said that some of the prisoners at Guantanamo may not have been terrorists at all but were singled out by vengeful villagers who told U.S. authorities they were al Qaeda.

    "We know that a lot of people who were in Guantanamo don't qualify as being the 'worst of the worst,'" he said, quoting former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's assessment.

    Bergen said some of those "suspected" to have returned to terrorism are so categorized because they publicly made anti-American statements, "something that's not surprising if you've been locked up in a U.S. prison camp for several years."
    Security experts skeptical on Gitmo detainee report - CNN.com

    So this is what we are going to do.. We are going to hold some indefinitely because we cant prove they partook in terrorist activities, but we got a "hunch"? Talk about a bitch slap in the face of "justice".
    You also never answered my questions; So if they are terrorists why cant anyone charge them? Why are they cleared to be released?
    I already answered your question in the initial post. You chose to ignore. Terrorism isn't a crime. They are enemy combatants. You're acting like they were in their mud hut minding their own business and some Pakistanis just happened to pick them up and hand them over or something.

    Comparing terrorism to street crime is a fallacy. One terrorist who detonates a bomb in a shopping mall can kill dozens if not hundreds of people. Comparing that to some schmuck who gets released on drug charges and goes and gets doped up again or something, or commits a burglary is ridiculous.

    You want to believe that these people in Gitmo are innocent victims. I don't share that view. If they want to starve themselves to death, fine, *&^% em. Let them kill themselves with a slow painful death. Besides, why aren't you blaming Obama was not fulfilling his promise to close Gitmo? He get a pass on that too like everything else?

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I already answered your question in the initial post.
    No you didnt.

    You chose to ignore. Terrorism isn't a crime.
    Uhhh.. Terrorism is a crime. Terrorism by definition is always a crime. If it isnt a crime why are we criminal prosecuting several terrorists?

    They are enemy combatants. You're acting like they were in their mud hut minding their own business and some Pakistanis just happened to pick them up and hand them over or something.
    Where is the proof? Why if they are "terrorists" why are they cleared to be released?


    Comparing terrorism to street crime is a fallacy. One terrorist who detonates a bomb in a shopping mall can kill dozens if not hundreds of people. Comparing that to some schmuck who gets released on drug charges and goes and gets doped up again or something, or commits a burglary is ridiculous.
    I never compared it to street crime.


    You want to believe that these people in Gitmo are innocent victims.
    No i want justice and proof.

    I don't share that view. If they want to starve themselves to death, fine, *&^% em. Let them kill themselves with a slow painful death. Besides, why aren't you blaming Obama was not fulfilling his promise to close Gitmo? He get a pass on that too like everything else?
    I do blame Obama.


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