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Thread: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I wasn't drugged.

    When I was in the Army our medics used to practice on us. Tubes and IVs.

    So basiclly we're talking about 19-year-old kids with a few months of medical training and maybe 2 or 3 previous 'tubes under their belt intubating other 19-year-old kids in the muddy field behind the barracks for Wednesday's "Sergeants' Time" training.

    We're not exactly talking about experts doing the administration under ideal clinical conditions.

    And like I said, it wasn't comfortable by any means, and I probably wouldn't have done it unless I was voluntold to, but if you weren't ranting and raving and making some huge production about it and generally acting like an enormous pussy it wasn't exactly torture either.

    In retrospect, I guess there was some small degree of "drugging". They'd jam a little bit of some kind of topical anesthetic up our nose, and then coat the tube in some kind of lubricant, which I guess must have helped some. Wouldn't have wanted to do it "raw dog" (as the kids say).

    I assume the same procedure is used in Gitmo, though I haven't read the SOPs so I can't be sure.

    Anyhow, I'm giving you my personal experience in having this done to me a number of times under similar, if not identical, conditions and my personal observations of personally sitting there and watching it done to a dozen other guys.

    A few guys were kind of squeemish, one guy threw up, but nobody carried on like Mos Def in that video.

    There is NO DOUBT in my mind that he was hamming it up for the camera.
    Maybe he was hamming it up, who knows. I have had similar procedures done several times myself (had scopes before and after my heart surgery). Was drugged and given a disgusting liquid to coat my throat. Sometimes it was merely uncomfortable. Other times it was downright painful.

    Of course, the debate over whether he overacted is moot. The real debate should be on Guantanamo itself.
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I'm sure that there's something in the War Powers Act that allows the president to do so - some loophole or what-have-you. For all intents and purposes, they're considered military prisoners and informants - and I think America should give a giant middle finger to the UN and the Hague. America needs to look out for its own, and if these war criminals can be used to further that, so be it. However, I would like to see due process being enforced and have their stuff taken care of as opposed to being thrown in a cell and rotting.
    I dislike the UN as much as anyone, but when dealing with international issues, it only makes sense to follow international rules/laws. Especially when that nation (US) helped pass them. Our govt decided to ignore them and declare these men 'enemy combatants,' not POWs. They do this because they have little-to-no evidence against the majority of them.
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Of course, the debate over whether he overacted is moot. The real debate should be on Guantanamo itself.
    In another thread I'd agree.

    I think there's all manner of debate to be had around the issue of Camp X-Ray.

    But I don't think that debate should be influenced by a staged, exagerated, theatrical propaganda production of a medical procedure that I know from personal experience (an experience that the overwelming majority of Americans haven't had) doesn't effect the "patient" in a way even approximating Mos Def's portrayal.

    As you say, the procedure can be uncomfortable, even downright painful, but it dosn't cause a grown man to react as though someone's trying to jam a rhinoceros up his ass, as Def would have us believe.

    There are plenty of good, rational, logical, legal arguments that can be made in relation to Gitmo. That argument shouldn't be muddied by schlock propaganda nor should it be made as a result of the kind of knee-jerk emotional reactionisim this kind of video shoots to inspire.

    But I guess "any port in a storm" when you're a black nationalist activist who supports cop killers and turns everything into a racial (and now, apparently, religious) incident.
    Last edited by soot; 07-09-13 at 03:31 PM.

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Maybe you should educate yourself a bit on where a lot of these men came from. What kind of 'libertarian' are you anyways?
    I have no sympathy for terrorists

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I have no sympathy for terrorists
    What evidence do you have that they are all terrorists?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    What evidence do you have that they are all terrorists?
    Well, do you think that the feds have a thing about randomly locking up people with brown skin?

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Well, do you think that the feds have a thing about randomly locking up people with brown skin?
    Do you know how many of them were obtained?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Do you know how many of them were obtained?
    Well, I used to live about 45 minutes from Dearborn. They missed.

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Well, I used to live about 45 minutes from Dearborn. They missed.
    Not sure what you mean but here's the info:

    1. Fifty-five percent (55%) of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile acts against the United States or its coalition allies.
    2. Only 8% of the detainees were characterized as al Qaeda fighters. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no definitive affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban.

    3. The Government has detained numerous persons based on mere affiliations with a large number of groups that in fact, are not on the Department of Homeland Security terrorist watchlist. Moreover, the nexus between such a detainee and such organizations varies considerably. Eight percent are detained because they are deemed "fighters for;" 30% considered "members of;" a large majority - 60% -- are detained merely because they are "associated with" a group or groups the Government asserts are terrorist organizations. For 2% of the prisoners their nexus to any terrorist group is unidentified.

    4. Only 5% of the detainees were captured by United States forces. 86% of the detainees were arrested by either Pakistan or the Northern Alliance and turned over to United States custody. This 86% of the detainees captured by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance were handed over to the United States at a time in which the United States offered large bounties for capture of suspected enemies.

    5. Finally, the population of persons deemed not to be enemy combatants - mostly Uighers - are in fact accused of more serious allegations than a great many persons still deemed to be enemy combatants.

    Report: More than Half of Gitmo Detainees Not Accused of Hostile Acts - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime
    http://law.shu.edu/publications/guan...al_2_08_06.pdf
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    While at this point the force feedings are unavoidable (damned if you do, damned if you don't), they shouldn't have been necessary for many of these people in the first place.
    And what about those that are there for a legitimate reason in the first place?

    Should the US be force feeding them when they go on hunger strike? Or should they let them die from the hunger strike? And do you think that it's fair to condemn the US in either instance in such cases?

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