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Thread: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Okay...so? It's an uncomfortable and possibly painful experience.

    What are peoples preferences exactly?

    Shall we let those who go on hunger strike perish from lack of food? Is that preferred? If they do that, will the U.S. be called heartless and violators of human rights by letting these people starve to death?

    Shall we instead let anyone who goes "I'm going on a hunger strike" go? Simply free anyone who says "hunger strike"?

    Exactly what are you suggesting is done instead, because frankly this looks like nothing but a "I don't like GITMO, so I don't care what they do, I'm going to find a way to criticize them and demonize them for it".
    While at this point the force feedings are unavoidable (damned if you do, damned if you don't), they shouldn't have been necessary for many of these people in the first place. There is little to no evidence against many of these men. Most of them were captured by other tribes seeking reward from our govt. And out of the hundreds that have been held, only 10 have been charged with a crime. Either bring up charges or release the men.
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Let them starve themselves to death

    *&^% em
    Maybe you should educate yourself a bit on where a lot of these men came from. What kind of 'libertarian' are you anyways?
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    It's typical "damned if you do, damned if you don't" from liberals. If they're force-fed to stay alive, the guards are heartless. If they die from malnutrition, the guards are heartless.

    Some people just need to be offended, or they don't know what to do with themselves.
    I am offended that our govt thinks that it can keep anyone imprisoned indefinitely without trial. That is not what the US should be about. That is not what libertarianism is about. Whats with all these neo-imperialism supporters posing as 'libertarians?' Was the Bush Administration that bad that you guys cannot call yourselves Republicans/conservatives anymore?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    The outrage comes from the misguided belief that those who are locked up at GITMO are in no way a threat to America. They truly believe that these people are NOT hell bent on killing us.
    Then our military should have no problem providing the proof for each one. Where are the trials?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    From right after 9/11 2001 I have been saying that we had to handle this as a police matter within the bounds of legality. A war is something you do against a specific country, but there is no "terrorist" country. Instead there are what we view as terrorists within countries who are contained within innocent civilian populations which means we are not engaged in an all out war on the population of a country. Had we handled it in a way that was more police like seeking to arrest and convict these terrorists in some sort of court for their actions we would have had to gather evidence and try them. Instead a certain faction in the US decided we should treat this as a war where these people are now POWs and we cannot try them because we lack crimes and proper evidence to do so. Even the ones who have been declared innocent have now become a problem because releasing them is problematic because we have violated their human rights so much that those people in command would be potentially criminally responsible for their actions. That is not to mention the reality that if they were innocent and not ready to kill us all when we imprisoned them, they probably will be now. I cannot blame them for that. If i was pulled off the street by russian troops and tossed into russian torture chambers for years without a trial, charges, or even doing anything wrong I would be ready to kill their asses if i ever got out, and I do not hold any hatred for the russian people right now.

    This is a stupid mistake made by law breaking assholes years ago, and now we are suffering from the consequences of what to do. Letting these guys loose at this point I have no doubt would incite more violence against the US. I severely doubt punishing those responsible would stop that, but i would be for doing so. We need some sort of restriction on our government to not be able to create a war against a concept rather than using legal actions to prosecute and detain people who act outside of legal boundaries. War against concepts do not work, and there is never any victory against an idea. You can conquer a country with military force, but you cannot conquer an idea with troops.

    I personally think we should release them if we are not going to try them and simply shore up our security to try to avoid the inevitable backlash against america that would come from it. The ones we can try and convict we do that so that when we have hunger strikes and have to do this at least we can say that they had their day in court with legitimate defense and we convicted them on evidence of actual crimes. People tend to be much less bothered by criminals having to undergo stuff like this, and the problem is we do not know if these guys are criminals because they have not been tried and convicted. However, I can see why our government is and will be very unwilling to release these people. It is a stain of blood and embarrassment our country will never be rid of.

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    From right after 9/11 2001 I have been saying that we had to handle this as a police matter within the bounds of legality. A war is something you do against a specific country, but there is no "terrorist" country. Instead there are what we view as terrorists within countries who are contained within innocent civilian populations which means we are not engaged in an all out war on the population of a country. Had we handled it in a way that was more police like seeking to arrest and convict these terrorists in some sort of court for their actions we would have had to gather evidence and try them. Instead a certain faction in the US decided we should treat this as a war where these people are now POWs and we cannot try them because we lack crimes and proper evidence to do so. Even the ones who have been declared innocent have now become a problem because releasing them is problematic because we have violated their human rights so much that those people in command would be potentially criminally responsible for their actions. That is not to mention the reality that if they were innocent and not ready to kill us all when we imprisoned them, they probably will be now. I cannot blame them for that. If i was pulled off the street by russian troops and tossed into russian torture chambers for years without a trial, charges, or even doing anything wrong I would be ready to kill their asses if i ever got out, and I do not hold any hatred for the russian people right now.

    This is a stupid mistake made by law breaking assholes years ago, and now we are suffering from the consequences of what to do. Letting these guys loose at this point I have no doubt would incite more violence against the US. I severely doubt punishing those responsible would stop that, but i would be for doing so. We need some sort of restriction on our government to not be able to create a war against a concept rather than using legal actions to prosecute and detain people who act outside of legal boundaries. War against concepts do not work, and there is never any victory against an idea. You can conquer a country with military force, but you cannot conquer an idea with troops.

    I personally think we should release them if we are not going to try them and simply shore up our security to try to avoid the inevitable backlash against america that would come from it. The ones we can try and convict we do that so that when we have hunger strikes and have to do this at least we can say that they had their day in court with legitimate defense and we convicted them on evidence of actual crimes. People tend to be much less bothered by criminals having to undergo stuff like this, and the problem is we do not know if these guys are criminals because they have not been tried and convicted. However, I can see why our government is and will be very unwilling to release these people. It is a stain of blood and embarrassment our country will never be rid of.
    When terrorists was in Guantanamo,
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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    When terrorists was in Guantanamo,
    Let My people go!
    Oppressed so hard they could not stand,
    Let My people go!
    Well, that was pointless. Anyone with an opinion want to respond, or have i reduced any opposition to pure babbling?

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Of course its not as big of a deal when you are drugged.
    I wasn't drugged.

    When I was in the Army our medics used to practice on us. Tubes and IVs.

    So basiclly we're talking about 19-year-old kids with a few months of medical training and maybe 2 or 3 previous 'tubes under their belt intubating other 19-year-old kids in the muddy field behind the barracks for Wednesday's "Sergeants' Time" training.

    We're not exactly talking about experts doing the administration under ideal clinical conditions.

    And like I said, it wasn't comfortable by any means, and I probably wouldn't have done it unless I was voluntold to, but if you weren't ranting and raving and making some huge production about it and generally acting like an enormous pussy it wasn't exactly torture either.

    In retrospect, I guess there was some small degree of "drugging". They'd jam a little bit of some kind of topical anesthetic up our nose, and then coat the tube in some kind of lubricant, which I guess must have helped some. Wouldn't have wanted to do it "raw dog" (as the kids say).

    I assume the same procedure is used in Gitmo, though I haven't read the SOPs so I can't be sure.

    Anyhow, I'm giving you my personal experience in having this done to me a number of times under similar, if not identical, conditions and my personal observations of personally sitting there and watching it done to a dozen other guys.

    A few guys were kind of squeemish, one guy threw up, but nobody carried on like Mos Def in that video.

    There is NO DOUBT in my mind that he was hamming it up for the camera.

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I am offended that our govt thinks that it can keep anyone imprisoned indefinitely without trial. That is not what the US should be about. That is not what libertarianism is about. Whats with all these neo-imperialism supporters posing as 'libertarians?' Was the Bush Administration that bad that you guys cannot call yourselves Republicans/conservatives anymore?
    I'm sure that there's something in the War Powers Act that allows the president to do so - some loophole or what-have-you. For all intents and purposes, they're considered military prisoners and informants - and I think America should give a giant middle finger to the UN and the Hague. America needs to look out for its own, and if these war criminals can be used to further that, so be it. However, I would like to see due process being enforced and have their stuff taken care of as opposed to being thrown in a cell and rotting.

    Ah well - it takes a lot to run a nation of this size, this strength, and this wealth.

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    Re: Mos Def, a.k.a. Yasiin Bey, Submits to Gitmo-Style Force-Feeding

    I think that complaints about prisoners being held without trial is legitimate criticism. Complaints of forced intubations of recalcitrant prisoners isn't. Gaolers must do what is necessary to keep prisoners alive and with a modicum of health.

    That Mos Def would be complicit in creating a propaganda opportunity for the enemies of the country in which he is a citizen is shameful. Ultimately, I think it backfires, because it does nothing to convince those that support Gitmo incarceration that the incarceration is itself illegitimate. It only hardens feelings on both sides.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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