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Thread: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post

    Another example of why I brought up the "What if they were killing kids in dark rooms?" question, because you very clearly state no matter how bad or horrible you think it is, keep your mouth shut.
    No, killing kids in a dark room is clearly illegal. You used that example because you wanted to appeal to emotion and up the rhetoric since you really have nothing else.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    As if fabricating other's positions isn't a lazy tactic. Frankly, a jpeg is all your post deserved in reply.

    No, you plainly did not. I've repeatedly stated that his personal feelings nor mine should absolve him from legal consequences. What you posted was no more than a caricature and an attempt to pigeon hole those who disagree with your position.
    See? Good, you fit in category 1. A person should never whistleblow, no matter how bad something is. This is what I said about your position from the very beginning. I'm glad that after 5 posts you finally balls'd up and admitted it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, killing kids in a dark room is clearly illegal. You used that example because you wanted to appeal to emotion and up the rhetoric since you really have nothing else.
    And he, like me, and many other Americans, believe that prism is clearly illegal. So you fit into category 2. You simply disagree about his prioritization of this problem, you don't disagree with his tactics.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    As if fabricating other's positions isn't a lazy tactic. Frankly, a jpeg is all your post deserved in reply.

    No, you plainly did not. I've repeatedly stated that his personal feelings nor mine should absolve him from legal consequences. What you posted was no more than a caricature and an attempt to pigeon hole those who disagree with your position.
    All you had to do was include a third alternative into which you fit with your straw man picture. But, you didn't, and I personally don't see one.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    See? Good, you fit in category 1. A person should never whistleblow, no matter how bad something is. This is what I said about your position from the very beginning.
    I've never stated such. You're conflating (purposely I assume) the difference between legal and personal/moral judgement. When pigeonholing is all ya got..

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post

    And he, like me, and many other Americans, believe that prism is clearly illegal. So you fit into category 2. You simply disagree about his prioritization of this problem, you don't disagree with his tactics.
    Your beliefs are entirely irrelevant. You do not get to make that determination. I reject your categories, since they have nothing to do with my beliefs. The fact you have to make things up is very telling.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    All you had to do was include a third alternative into which you fit with your straw man picture. But, you didn't, and I personally don't see one.
    You can't envision a scenario in which one could justify leaking on a moral or personal level, but not on legal grounds?

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    I've never stated such. You're conflating (purposely I assume) the difference between legal and personal/moral judgement. When pigeonholing is all ya got..
    Well, when you advocate for him being prosecuted, that's what you're saying, that he shouldn't have done that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Your beliefs are entirely irrelevant. You do not get to make that determination. I reject your categories, since they have nothing to do with my beliefs. The fact you have to make things up is very telling.
    And your beliefs are relevant? You believe the kids scenario is completely different because it's "clearly illegal." We believe spying on Americans is clearly illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    You can't envision a scenario in which one could justify leaking on a moral or personal level, but not on legal grounds?
    You don't justify the leaking. You think he shouldn't have done it. So, any such scenario I might envision wouldn't apply to you.

    My understanding of your statements is that you are in the camp of people who are against Snowden having revealed his information. RA described two mind sets for people in that camp. You just described a person whose mind set places them outside that camp.

    If you believe he should have done it on a moral or personal level and that he shouldn't have done it on a legal level, then you are of two minds. Once you decide which mind will win out, then we can discuss whether you are inside the camp RA laid out, and if applicable, which of the two categories in that camp to which you belong.

    So, do you support the capture, prosecution and conviction of Snowden?
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    No, the cowardly thing to do would have been to ignore his conscience and remain quiet so he could keep his six-figure salary and cushy life.
    Agreed. But running away and hiding, rather than standing up to the fact what he did was still illegal, is also cowardly. Rosa Parks sat on a bus, knowing she'd be arrested. Did she run when the police got there? No, she stood up (or I guess in her case sat down) for what she believed in and she was willing to pay the price for doing what she thought was right. Rosa Parks was courageous. Edward Snowden is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Cowards don't speak out against tyrannical government.
    Obviously they do. Of course, the USA is not a tyrannical government, so your statement really doesn't matter, but even in the manner you made it, Snowden is a coward. He broke the law and ran.

    How would he fight a government that can legally incarcerate and torture its own citizens, without the possibility of appeal or due process of any kind whatsoever?
    That would not happen to him. The public visibility of Edward Snowden would make that impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Oh, right. My bad. I assumed you were being serious.
    I was.

    Edward Snowden did a courageous act, but he is not courageous. He came out with his information because he claimed to be a patriot, a true American, and yet he ran from America instead of standing up to face its justice system. That's not courage and that's not patriotism. Snowden acted once in a courageous manner, and then fled in a cowardly manner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And calling us Snowden a "coward" is laughable. I wonder how many here who label him thus would so willingly sacrifice their home, family and freedom to stand up for their principles.
    He is a coward and he's not standing up for his principles. He's tattling and running away.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So anyone who doesn't want to get locked in a box, tortured, and refused a trial for years is a coward?
    No, a person who breaks the law and runs from authorities is a coward. Snowden knew full well what he was doing. But rather than face the music, he ran.

    I think you're full of ****. I guess all of the founding fathers were pieces of **** for not turning themselves into the British government to be hanged.
    Our founding fathers didn't sign the Declaration of Independence and then hightail it to Mexico. They put their names on the document and then were willing to fight for what they believed in. Edward Snowden is nothing like our founding fathers.

    Ridiculous. You just want to see him burn because you hate what he did, it has NOTHING to do with his "courage".
    I don't hate what he did. I think what he did was rather irrelevant, because anyone who knows anything about technology has known this has been going on for years. All the "revelations" Snowden supposedly announced have been known for years.

    Privacy is a big issue. I am very much in favor of Internet privacy, and I do not approve of what the government has been doing. But with that said, at the same time, I also believe very strongly in standing up for convictions and Snowden did not. Snowden chose to run rather than stand up and fight for what he believes in.

    If you discovered the government was doing morally wrong, or unconstitutional actions and didn't report it, you'd be a coward.
    Agreed. I'm not saying the one act Snowden made was not a courageous one act. But one act does not define a man. If I'm afraid of heights and go up on a ferris wheel one time before vowing to never do so again, does that mean I'm courageous? No, it means I had a moment of strength.

    If the government were torturing children in dark rooms, I imagine you'd do something.
    Damn straight I would. And I would look my government in the eye and sit in that court room and let my fellow Americans decide if I did the right thing or not.

    This "Patriotism and loyalty to the government REGARDLESS of what they do" is absolute bull****.
    I never said that. You're putting words into my mouth which were never there.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Your beliefs are entirely irrelevant. You do not get to make that determination.
    Actually, they are relevant. The constitutionality of programs does not get challenged unless someone first believes that there is something to challenge. You seem to think that people who think programs are unconstitutional should shut the **** up and just deal with it. Do you think that Redress?

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