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Thread: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

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    Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Why, did he also ask for asylum from the oppressive dictatorship that controls Mars?
    Because he knew that due to geopolitics that he would not be sent back to be accountable for his crimes if he went to the likes of Russia, China and Venezuela.

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Look at the 4th amendment, protection against unlawful search and seizures.

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    Let me break this down. First, its the right to be "...secure in [our] persons, houses, papers and effects..." Metadata is like me watching you talk to somebody, and taking note of that. It isn't intruding physically into our houses, persons, nor is it reading our papers or going through our effects.

    "...Searches and seizures..." Metadata is neither taking anything from us, nor is it searching anything that belongs to anyone. It's observing interactions taking place. It is not a search because its intent is not to check what we're saying.

    "...Particularly describing the places to be searched..." Imagine that all our electronic interactions are moved into a physical realm. Our personal data would be stuff we carry on us. Our text messages and so forth (the words in the conversations) are like two people talking face to face.

    And metadata is like us walking up to someone and shaking their hand, waving at them, or hugging them. But even less so, because hugging vs. shaking hands tells us how close the two people are. Metadata doesn't even do that. It does nothing more than show us who is talking to whom. Not what the contents of the conversation are, nor does it provide us with any information about the people themselves.

    I don't think that the entire process is fully constitutional, however. If there is one link in the chain I'm worried about, it is the process by which the DOJ gives the NSA a warrant to probe into the individuals they've observed. I don't know much about this process. I don't know what the checks and balances are, what the requirements are, all I know is that over 95% of 500 requests have been granted.

    If everyone wants to pick something about PRISM that's shady, this is the thing to go after and demand accountability for. Sure, it's creepy to think that the government is watching to see who we all talk to, but there's nothing unconstitutional about it. The DOJ giving out warrants to basically every person the NSA is remotely interested in is the worrying thing about all this, and I hope you all realize that.
    All of that is opinion, it interests me not at all...no offense.

    I asked for link(s) to unbiased, factual proof.

    Precedent setting court cases, unbiased data/facts, etc..


    Btw:

    'meta·da·ta noun plural but singular or plural in construction \-ˈdā-tə, -ˈda- also -ˈdä-\

    Definition of METADATA

    : data that provides information about other data'


    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metadata


    Metadata IS data...like the contents of a person's 'papers and effects'.

    Knowing who someone spoke to, when, for how long IS clearly a violation of the 4'th Amendment, imo.

    I will not debate this.


    However, I will examine link(s) to unbiased, factual proof that shows otherwise...NOT opinions, facts.
    Last edited by DA60; 07-13-13 at 07:35 PM.

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[


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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    All of that is opinion, it interests me not at all...no offense.

    I asked for link(s) to unbiased, factual proof.

    Precedent setting court cases, unbiased data/facts, etc..

    Btw:

    'meta·da·ta noun plural but singular or plural in construction \-ˈdā-tə, -ˈda- also -ˈdä-\

    Definition of METADATA

    : data that provides information about other data'


    Metadata - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Metadata IS data...like the contents of a person's 'papers and effects'.

    Knowing who someone spoke to, when, for how long IS clearly a violation of the 4'th Amendment, imo.

    I will not debate this.

    However, I will examine link(s) to unbiased, factual proof that shows otherwise...NOT opinions, facts.
    There isn't much higher court precedent on metadata, but the Arizona Supreme Court ruled in 2009 that metadata is part of the public record. This supports the analogy I presented in my previous post.

    Furthermore, this article explains how metadata law has evolved from the "pen register vs. wiretap distinction." Notice that many of the analogies in this article run parallel to my own.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    There isn't much higher court precedent on metadata, but the Arizona Supreme Court ruled in 2009 that metadata is part of the public record. This supports the analogy I presented in my previous post.

    Furthermore, this article explains how metadata law has evolved from the "pen register vs. wiretap distinction." Notice that many of the analogies in this article run parallel to my own.
    Arizona Supreme Court is not federal. I meant FEDERAL court rulings.

    And the article is just opinion...does not interest me in the least.

    Forcing phone companies to release data on private phone calls without a warrant is against the 4th Amendment.

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/48...e-constitution

    And I am confident this will be proven in court whenever it eventually gets to the Supreme Court.


    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by DA60; 07-14-13 at 11:56 AM.

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    Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Arizona Supreme Court is not federal. I meant FEDERAL court rulings.

    And the article is just opinion...does not interest me in the least.

    Forcing phone companies to release data on private phone calls without a warrant is against the 4th Amendment.

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/48...e-constitution

    And I am confident this will be proven in court whenever it eventually gets to the Supreme Court.


    Have a nice day.
    Regherb vs Paulk @ SCOTUS

    I gave you this already but it won't sink...by choice I assume

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Regherb vs Paulk @ SCOTUS

    I gave you this already but it won't sink...by choice I assume
    I didn't see it.

    Where is the link...I have a life...I am not tracking down your 'proof'.

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    I don't see that..anyhow.
    Posted by Mr. Invisible on page 28.
    Why Didn’t Snowden Go through “Proper Channels” to Blow the Whistle? | Washington's Blog


    Instead he took advantage of his clearance and position to get deeper into the Gov's treasure chest of secrets; he moved onto Dell and then Booz because he was filtering out how to get right to the source, which he did in his last position at Booz. He kept digging his way into the NSA by digging himself deeper and deeper into the infrastructure. When he found what he wanted, he stole it and fled the country.
    None of this having anything to do with whether or not he was a whistleblower or whether or not the program was unconstitutional.

    There is nothing honorable about stealing; furthermore, there is nothing more cowardly than picking a fight and running.
    I don't deal in absolutes.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Why, did he also ask for asylum from the oppressive dictatorship that controls Mars?
    Don't change your wording. You clearly stated that he DEFECTED TO Venezuela. That is false.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    This isn't about a literal definition in the dictionary for whether or not it would apply is subjective. Who says the NSA is wrong, you? What if I don't? Then it doesn't apply?

    Whether or not he receives whistleblower status is based in applicable laws and legal protocol not the dictionary's literal definition.
    He is a whistleblower...by definition.


    Have a nice day.

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