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Thread: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    I wouldn't even waste a brain cell to belittle you. You seem to have a good grip on showcasing yourself as well..you.

    Snowden was, is, and will continue to be a coward for not standing on his principles and staying to fight. He ran like a coward and will die like one.
    There was no "fight", there was being hushed up and thrown in solitary confinement for a few years to be subjected to psychological torture without a trial just like Manning.
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    Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There was no "fight", there was being hushed up and thrown in solitary confinement for a few years to be subjected to psychological torture without a trial just like Manning.
    Com'on r u serious? Manning has been held under military rules for he is a soldier. Snowden is no whistleblower for he failed to follow protocol; he broke his oath of secrecy, non-disclosure agreements and violated federal laws-afterwards he did not stand and fight the charges but rather fled the country with stolen government documents. Now he is asking for asylum to run from his actions- that's cowardly!

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    I don't recall ever saying that; for someone who's busting balls around here for putting out false info, you seem to be forgetting yourself when ditching out advice...
    It was a question. As I pointed out, some seem to think that.

    I think that regardless of the evidence and common sense, those who view Snowden as a hero will never budge on how they see him.
    Well if it turns out the man is a child molester my view of him certainly will change. On this issue, though, I'm pretty set.

    Their bias towards the government or rules etc will hinder logic
    While I am a big critic of most government policies I do recognize a need for national security, taxes, and certain programs. I just believe we are headed down a dark road when it comes to our 'anti-terrorism' policies, especially at home.
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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    What whistleblower protocol did he follow? The answer: NONE therefore you can't claim those protections under the law. What YOU think, well that's up to you...
    There is no whistleblower protocol for people in his position. We already debunked that myth a few pages back.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    There is no whistleblower protocol for people in his position. We already debunked that myth a few pages back.
    Snowden, by definition, IS a whistleblower.

    'whis·tle·blow·er or whis·tle-blow·er or whistle blower (hwsl-blr, ws-)
    n.
    One who reveals wrongdoing within an organization to the public or to those in positions of authority:'


    whistleblower - definition of whistleblower by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


    He's also a hero and thank goodness he did what he did.

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    Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    There is no whistleblower protocol for people in his position. We already debunked that myth a few pages back.
    I don't see that..anyhow. When he was a federal employee at the CIA, he could have raised his grievances thru the IG's office, he could have gone to the Congress, etc yet he did not. Instead he took advantage of his clearance and position to get deeper into the Gov's treasure chest of secrets; he moved onto Dell and then Booz because he was filtering out how to get right to the source, which he did in his last position at Booz. He kept digging his way into the NSA by digging himself deeper and deeper into the infrastructure. When he found what he wanted, he stole it and fled the country. There is nothing honorable about stealing; furthermore, there is nothing more cowardly than picking a fight and running.

    What Snowden did is leak highly classified information, and illegal act, and overrode an entire system of government's check and balances as it relates to the program's of the NSA. Which by the way, while immoral to some, are legal nonetheless.

    Is he so mighty and superior that he alone is to decide what is and shouldn't be kept secret by the government??

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    Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Snowden, by definition, IS a whistleblower.

    'whis·tle·blow·er or whis·tle-blow·er or whistle blower (hwsl-blr, ws-)
    n.
    One who reveals wrongdoing within an organization to the public or to those in positions of authority:'


    whistleblower - definition of whistleblower by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


    He's also a hero and thank goodness he did what he did.
    This isn't about a literal definition in the dictionary for whether or not it would apply is subjective. Who says the NSA is wrong, you? What if I don't? Then it doesn't apply?

    Whether or not he receives whistleblower status is based in applicable laws and legal protocol not the dictionary's literal definition.

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    I don't see that..anyhow. When he was a federal employee at the CIA, he could have raised his grievances thru the IG's office, he could have gone to the Congress, etc
    You think complaining about a corrupt overreaching government to that same corrupt overreaching government would accomplish anything?

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

    Grey Hat. Spend some time considering this. The federal government has been spying on its citizens. The fact that it does that is classified. Is it classified for reasons of national security or is it classified because the government simply doesn't want the people to know it is spying on them? If you think about it, the reason has to be the latter. Intercepting a text message I might send to one of my sisters is hardly a question of national security. You can say that intercepting a terrorist's text message is a matter of national security but you have to know in advance that it is a suspected terrorist in order to justify it as such.

    The fact is not some, but most classified information is classified not because knowledge of it will harm the U.S. but because it will embarrass the U.S. Informing the public of this is actually heroic because it is a single man standing up to the giant government. It is heroic because it lets the public know that its government is doing something wrong. It is illegal because the government makes it so, not because it hurts anybody. So Snowden's actions are both illegal and heroic in the eyes of many. Common sense should lead you to that conclusion.

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    Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Grey Hat. Spend some time considering this. The federal government has been spying on its citizens. The fact that it does that is classified. Is it classified for reasons of national security or is it classified because the government simply doesn't want the people to know it is spying on them? If you think about it, the reason has to be the latter.
    The government's reaction would be very very different if only the American people knew about PRISM and not every person in the world. Or other governments we've spied on. Or terrorists who (hopefully not) might be smart enough to change the way they operate to avoid due scrutiny by PRISM.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Intercepting a text message I might send to one of my sisters is hardly a question of national security. You can say that intercepting a terrorist's text message is a matter of national security but you have to know in advance that it is a suspected terrorist in order to justify it as such.
    If the actual text message was being checked, then the situation is obviously unconstitutional and wrong. But that's not the case at all. The data being monitored is metadata. Information about what numbers you call, and how often. If the NSA see's something potentially suspicious, they ask the DOJ for permission. Personally, I'm more concerned about how the DOJ determines whether or not to give the NSA a warrant than I am about PRISM. From what I've heard, of the 500 something requests for warrants, over 95% have been granted. I don't know the specifics of each case, or the process, but I think that's the link that needs to be strongest, in order to protect the rights of Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    The fact is not some, but most classified information is classified not because knowledge of it will harm the U.S. but because it will embarrass the U.S. Informing the public of this is actually heroic because it is a single man standing up to the giant government. It is heroic because it lets the public know that its government is doing something wrong. It is illegal because the government makes it so, not because it hurts anybody. So Snowden's actions are both illegal and heroic in the eyes of many. Common sense should lead you to that conclusion.
    This knowledge is classified because of the diplomatic fallout that results from, for example, France realizing we spy on them. It's classified because of the increased difficulty in tracking and capturing terrorists when they realize we're spying on them in this manner. At the end of the day, Snowden's actions only hurt America's diplomatic ties and ability to preempt terrorist actions.
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