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Thread: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Proof? I have read otherwise. Are these warrants granted by the secret courts as described under the Patriot Act?




    Yeah, thats what the government is saying a lot. With no proof of harm.
    You can't just demand proof when the burden is on you to show that these searches were warrant less (it is well known that there were warrants), and when leaking classified information is well known to cause harm to national security.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Obama is the one who tortures his own citizens via drone attacks.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    you make some good points and I have NOT been a Snowden fan.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That's ok, nobody's perfect. As i have stated many times before, I despise the founders as slave holding, oath breaking plutocrats.
    Well, I agree on the slaveholding. However, some of the Founders clearly opposed slaveholding. I have no problem breaking an oath to a government that is not representative of the citizens. It is like breaking a contract with someone who already broke the contract themselves.

    Rothbard, hayek, nozick, Heinlein, to name a few. Also Jesus, the greatest libertarian of them all.
    And you think any of them opposed breaking oaths to the govt?

    Bb later. Got some errands to run.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Well, I agree on the slaveholding. However, some of the Founders clearly opposed slaveholding. I have no problem breaking an oath to a government that is not representative of the citizens. It is like breaking a contract with someone who already broke the contract themselves.



    And you think any of them opposed breaking oaths to the govt?

    Bb later. Got some errands to run.
    I certainly don't think Jesus would approve of any oath breaking. If you can't keep your word then don't give it, even to the government.

    Enjoy your errands!

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Do you have link(s) to unbiased, factual (not hearsay) proof that un-Constitutionally obtained data/information directly stopped 'multiple attacks'?

    Yes or no, please?
    That's what I'd like to see. We've been told that we are more at risk. But they give no information on the statistically significant increase in our mortality probabilities. They said X number of attacks have been prevented, but there's no evidence of it. All the defense thus far has been nothing more than unsubstantiated claims on part of the government. But we should trust them
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Indeed. Sad but true.

    This is revealing a very ugly side of some of my fellow libertarians. It seems that there are many who oppose autthatts own sake, not out of principle but merely because they like rebellion. But a true Libertarian should loathe Snowden because fundamental to Liberty is Responsibility. So many libertarians forget that liberty is a double edged sword. It doesn't just mean doing what you please, it means taking personal responsibility for the harm you cause.
    Liberty indeed requires responsibility. We are responsible for the government. We are the sovereigns, and we must be diligent in watching the government and reporting its actions to the people so that we may best control it. And it is for that reason that Snowden upheld his duty and did what was right and what is necessary. Snowden is a hero.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I certainly don't think Jesus would approve of any oath breaking. If you can't keep your word then don't give it, even to the government.
    Let me ask you this: As a Christian, do you feel it is appropriate to lie if the circumstance warranted it? I agree that, in general, oathbreaking is wrong. The same thing with killing. And yet, I have met few Christians who believe that killing in self defense is wrong.

    Enjoy your errands!
    Thank you. Kinda difficult to enjoy it with the crazy humidity today.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by tommytunes View Post
    Obama is the one who tortures his own citizens via drone attacks.
    It is interesting how one man who breaks an oath is reviled by the media but another who breaks it (and people are actually killed) is revered.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You can't just demand proof when the burden is on you to show that these searches were warrant less (it is well known that there were warrants), and when leaking classified information is well known to cause harm to national security.
    The government was obtaining information from billions of calls. Were they obtaining billions of warrants?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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