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Thread: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I don't believe in doing things to hurt the US but recording everyone's phone calls, emails, text messages and other forms of communications is simply too much information. It gives the government way too much ability to abuse their power thru secret courts and under the guise of national security.
    and what if snowden releases information that potentially endangers the lives of americans involved in secret and covert operations? has he relinquished all the information he possesses? if he is holding onto that information, that would mean he would be a valuable aqusition for any country that has a grudge against us and would benefit from knowing our secret programs?

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Yes, they do. Only an ignorant fool would not think countries who possess the technology are not spying on each other to every extent possible, and the people who have the secrets which need to be guarded are not ignorant fools.

    Well, regardless of how well it was known, it was still considered classified information.

    Sounds like a great description.

    Realistically we have to protect our interests as a nation but we can't use that as an excuse to be abusive towards citizens and allies. And the potential for that is very high with today's technology. Look at the IRS scandal and News Media intimidation, showing the gov needs checks and balances, especially for average citizens.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Obviously not everyone agrees with me. If you don't like how I state my beliefs, don't read my posts.
    You missed the point. The point was you were putting your beliefs as fact, and from that "fact", you were assessing the situation under your beliefs.

    I love when people say things like, "Snowden's information about that did not come as a surprise to me or anyone who has been paying attention." Again, you are not a special snowflake.
    I never claimed to be, in fact, I know there are plenty of people who knew this information beforehand. The point I'm making is that Snowden did not come out with a "revelation".

    The issue here isn't surprise. Nobody except for you has said anything about being surprised.
    What exactly do you think "revelation" means?

    The issue of "surprise" is the ultimate self-aggrandizing strawman.
    It wasn't my word, and you argued with me when I argued it with the person who used the word. *shrug*

    As for the rest of your post, knowing about other programs and believing that programs like PRISM and the Verizon program existed is, again, not the same thing as knowing that PRISM and the Verizon program existed.


    Yes and knowing that baby sparrows exist and believing that baby hummingbirds exist is not the same that as knowing that baby hummingbirds exist. After all, I've never seen one.

    You didn't know.
    Sure we did. We may not have known the names, but we knew what was going on. We knew the government took data from cell phone carriers. We knew the government was collecting data on Americans, was constantly requesting more data on Americans. Of course we knew that.

    You ought to be more accurate and precise with your language
    You ought to quit playing word games when it's apparent you were one of the ones who didn't know. Just because you didn't know didn't mean others didn't. The fact you think I'm a special snowflake because I did know says quite a bit about what you didn't know.
    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Really?

    Under which situation is he more able to continue to talk about what he knows, to any extent he wants...a) free; or b) in captivity?
    Yes, and what exactly required him to not reveal everything he knew all at one time?

    Snowden could have just told everything he knew all at once. But he didn't, he wanted to drag it out for maximum affect, and likely, for his own personal glory.
    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    I agree that snowden is a coward, but not for the reasons you offer. He's a coward because in choosing to work for the NSA in the first place, he broke his own principles . And he did it for $$.
    I wouldn't say that. If he suspected the wrongdoings, working for the NSA granted him the ability to confirm his suspicions. It would be considered an investigation.

    The act of revealing the spying operation, however, was honorable
    While I disagree with your word "reveal", I do NOT disagree it was the honorable thing to do to take it public. But what was not honorable was running away from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Realistically we have to protect our interests as a nation but we can't use that as an excuse to be abusive towards citizens and allies.
    It's the battle of security vs. privacy, and I don't know if those two sides can ever work together.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    but exactly how much information and government secrets does snowden possess. has he given away all knews or are there some government secrets he has not revealed yet and has stored on a personal hard drive. will he reveal it for free or will require payment for the information?
    AS part of his atonement for his sins (i. e. working for the NSA), Snowden has an obligation to freely tell all that he knows about corruption within the US gummint that he uncovered as an NSA spy.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    and what if snowden releases information that potentially endangers the lives of americans involved in secret and covert operations? has he relinquished all the information he possesses? if he is holding onto that information, that would mean he would be a valuable aqusition for any country that has a grudge against us and would benefit from knowing our secret programs?
    I doubt somehow he knows enough to seriously damage the US spy agencies abilities to use espionage on other nations. We have satellites that can read your opened mail and count your freckles. The gov wouldn't even tell us how much he knows anyway they're so paranoid and secretive. Obama is always preaching transparency to other nations, especially emerging democracies and he's about opaque as a brick wall.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    You missed the point. The point was you were putting your beliefs as fact, and from that "fact", you were assessing the situation under your beliefs.
    No, I didn't miss the point. I stated my beliefs without prefacing them with "I believe" and now you're harping on it. Like I said, if you don't like the way I state my beliefs, don't read my posts.

    I never claimed to be, in fact, I know there are plenty of people who knew this information beforehand. The point I'm making is that Snowden did not come out with a "revelation".
    The only people who "knew" this info beforehand were the people who were privy to the classified information. You really need to grasp the difference between knowledge and belief.

    What exactly do you think "revelation" means?
    What, exactly, do you think this question has to do with that fact that nobody but you brought up the issue of surprise?

    It wasn't my word, and you argued with me when I argued it with the person who used the word. *shrug*
    Great, so you accept that you aren't a special snowflake when it comes to not being surprised. I appreciate that.

    Yes and knowing that baby sparrows exist and believing that baby hummingbirds exist is not the same that as knowing that baby hummingbirds exist. After all, I've never seen one.

    Sure we did. We may not have known the names, but we knew what was going on. We knew the government took data from cell phone carriers. We knew the government was collecting data on Americans, was constantly requesting more data on Americans. Of course we knew that.

    You ought to quit playing word games when it's apparent you were one of the ones who didn't know. Just because you didn't know didn't mean others didn't. The fact you think I'm a special snowflake because I did know says quite a bit about what you didn't know.
    Knowing the difference between belief and knowledge is not "word games." It's called being educated. Tell me - what do you think the difference between knowledge and belief is?

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I doubt somehow he knows enough to seriously damage the US spy agencies abilities to use espionage on other nations. We have satellites that can read your opened mail and count your freckles. The gov wouldn't even tell us how much he knows anyway they're so paranoid and secretive. Obama is always preaching transparency to other nations, especially emerging democracies and he's about opaque as a brick wall.
    and has he revealed everything he knows? he could potentially sell his information to other countries who would use our own spying techniques against us.

    to be frank snowden kinda reminds me of the exploits of theodore hall, the soviet spy who gave away secrets of the Manhattan project.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    and has he revealed everything he knows? he could potentially sell his information to other countries who would use our own spying techniques against us.

    to be frank snowden kinda reminds me of the exploits of theodore hall, the soviet spy who gave away secrets of the Manhattan project.
    He should be charged for any crimes that damage the strategic US interests, not for uncovering illegal activities by gov agencies. If revealing those unethical and overreach activities by the US hurt the gov, then they shouldn't have been doing them.

    I don't think the US foreign policy has been worth a tinkers damn anyhow. All we've done is stoke the chords of chaos, distrust and animus.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela, President Nicolás Maduro Says

    I hope he accepts and i hope he finds a way to get to Venezuela! [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Viva Maduro! I'm sure Obama will do everything in his power to keep this from happening and the lapdog media will smear Maduro.

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    re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    and what if snowden releases information that potentially endangers the lives of americans involved in secret and covert operations? has he relinquished all the information he possesses? if he is holding onto that information, that would mean he would be a valuable aqusition for any country that has a grudge against us


    If you wanna be taken seriously, please learn the basics. The US gummint and "us" are two different things.

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