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Thread: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Not even close. Except for the fact that they, unlike blacks, had the option of concealing their homosexuality. Their oppression was not even close to what the blacks faced in severity or volume. The comparison is false, and insulting. They need to illustrate their own strifes, and make posters and memes specific to their own struggles, instead of constantly jumping on the coat tails of the black community.
    That's a matter of opinion. Perhaps you are Black and are somehow offended by this comparison? If so, did you forget all the Black Americans who could pass for white and "hid" in plain view in those long gone bad old days? Hid until something gave them away, like maybe having a child who couldn't pass for white? So what if many homosexuals could "hide," they hid to prevent being systematically abused and hiding was PART of their oppression.

    If not, and you belong to some other oppressed minority I fail to understand your position. I'm Amerindian, and as a child I faced racial oppression. I have no problems listing homosexuals as among the oppressed.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-06-13 at 05:38 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    That's a matter of opinion.
    No, it's a matter of fact that the gays in this country have not endured the same hardships as American blacks. It's an insulting comparison, and it needs to stop.

    Perhaps you are Black and are somehow offended by this comparison? If so, did you forget all the Black Americans who could pass for white and "hid" in plain view in those long gone bad old days? Hid until something gave them away, like maybe having a child who couldn't pass for white? So what if many homosexuals could "hide," they hid to prevent being systematically abused and hiding was PART of their oppression.
    It doesn't matter what I am. this isn't about me, it's about a stupid comparison that needs to end. Gays have their own history, they don't need to ride the coat tails of black oppression. Somehow people still think it's relevant to draw that idiotic comparison, which shows a disturbing lack of historical knowledge.

    If not, and you belong to some other oppressed minority I fail to understand your position. I'm Amerindian, and as a child I faced racial oppression. I have no problems listing homosexuals as among the oppressed.
    Being oppressed doesn't put them in the same clubhouse as native Americans and American blacks.
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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Being oppressed doesn't put them in the same clubhouse as native Americans and American blacks.
    Oppression is oppression, it does not need a link to any other group to be validated. You are the one who originally posited a requirement for it to be "linked" to that of Black Americans because the OP used a couple of pictures showing similar protests by conservative (substitute "oppressors") in Washington.

    Of course "oppressors" never recognize or admit their wrongdoing. It's aways justified by some claim of being a "God-given and natural" way of doing things.

    All the rest of your comment is hyperbole and personal opinion.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    No, it's a matter of fact that the gays in this country have not endured the same hardships as American blacks. It's an insulting comparison, and it needs to stop.


    It doesn't matter what I am. this isn't about me, it's about a stupid comparison that needs to end. Gays have their own history, they don't need to ride the coat tails of black oppression. Somehow people still think it's relevant to draw that idiotic comparison, which shows a disturbing lack of historical knowledge.


    Being oppressed doesn't put them in the same clubhouse as native Americans and American blacks.
    Is all this supposed to justify oppression because I'm having trouble figuring out why you care so much about this.

    The comparison is that the idiots holding the signs are going to be on the wrong side of history and 40 years from now people are going to look back at them and just shake their heads. You're reading way too much into some image macro on the internet. Relax, dude.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Is all this supposed to justify oppression because I'm having trouble figuring out why you care so much about this.

    The comparison is that the idiots holding the signs are going to be on the wrong side of history and 40 years from now people are going to look back at them and just shake their heads. You're reading way too much into some image macro on the internet. Relax, dude.
    The problem with this perspective is that granting marriage rights to homosexuals is no where near as historically significant as granting equal rights to everyone regardless of race. It's not even in the same building. If there had been some legal mechanism that allowed for open discrimination against them and that had been reversed then, yes, I would agree that the historical significance is the same. But that's not the case here, is it. We're talking about the right to marry. Nothing more. Hardly compares to the plight of African Americans. It is actually quite demeaning to even make that comparison, IMO.

    Furthermore, in order to be granted that "right", the definition of a word needed to be changed. If it truly was the "right" that was the prize here, then that one could have been easily settled years ago by accepting civil unions. It offered the same "rights", just not the same "word".

    This is not and has never been about "rights". It's about moral equivalency. Changing the definition of a word is never going to accomplish this. Maybe from a legal point of view it will but society can still think for themselves. We're going to need at least a couple of generations of indoctrination before this mission is complete.
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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Is all this supposed to justify oppression because I'm having trouble figuring out why you care so much about this.

    The comparison is that the idiots holding the signs are going to be on the wrong side of history and 40 years from now people are going to look back at them and just shake their heads. You're reading way too much into some image macro on the internet. Relax, dude.
    I would equate the whole issue to that which rises to the level of oppression that is tantamount to women not being allowed to go topless in most states. It is the same thing to me, as oppression claimed by homosexuals, re: Marriage, and special rights. One might argue that all women should be allowed to do what they want, and only breastaphobes would object, but they're antiquated, and on the wrong side of history. Men can go topless wherever they choose for the most part, why can't women? Is it immoral to have a society that allows women to expose their breasts? I dunno, I could get used to it on a selfish level, but I tend to agree that society has a right, and a duty to protect certain aspects of behavior that it feels obliged too. Homosexuals can be homosexuals in this country, and in most places they so choose. They're not denied any liberties to practice their sexual identity in most situations notwithstanding common decency also denied heterosexuals. Topless women doesn't cause anyone any material harm, not even children if it were to become a norm in society, however, collectively, women included, we've decided by way of a relative agreement that we shouldn't permit it. Is it right? Is it morally objective? Who knows, but society in their right to govern themselves, has a right and duty to decide the issue. Opinions may change, and they have in some places like San Fran, and in designated nude beaches, but mostly society has spoken on the issue. Nude beaches, and places like San Fran have made accommodation for women wishing to go topless, similar to accommodation offered RE: SSM, via civil union. Seems that most women are fine with the oppressive nature of making it illegal to go topless, and have come to terms with it. Gays on the other hand, not so much!


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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    Furthermore, in order to be granted that "right", the definition of a word needed to be changed. If it truly was the "right" that was the prize here, then that one could have been easily settled years ago by accepting civil unions. It offered the same "rights", just not the same "word".
    Couple things:

    Civil unions are an attempt at giving a "separate but equal" status. Separate but equal is inherently unequal, because it carries with it a government-approved stigma of being separate, not worthy of using the same word as the rest of us. (Don't try to derail that statement with the racial segregation straw man.)

    Also, nobody ever really offered truly equal civil unions. Even in states that have tried to make equal civil unions, the results have never once actually been equal. In fact, until DOMA is fully repealed, it's literally impossible for civil unions to be equal. Finally, even when civil unions are "offered," the social regressives end up opposing them. They still show up holding up signs, they still say it's immoral, they say it's a slippery slope, yadda yadda. Don't give me this bull**** about equality being "offered." It has never been offered. And that's me skipping over how demeaning it is to "offer" someone their civil rights, as if that's something you have the moral or legal authority to grant or deny.


    This is not and has never been about "rights". It's about moral equivalency. Changing the definition of a word is never going to accomplish this. Maybe from a legal point of view it will but society can still think for themselves. We're going to need at least a couple of generations of indoctrination before this mission is complete.
    Nobody really gives a crap whether you personally approve of gay people using the word marriage. This isn't about you or your moral equivalency. It's not about your definition or my definition of a word. It's about how the government treats its citizens.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I would equate the whole issue to that which rises to the level of oppression that is tantamount to women not being allowed to go topless in most states. It is the same thing to me, as oppression claimed by homosexuals, re: Marriage, and special rights.
    Stopped right there. Marriage isn't a special right that homosexuals are asking for sole access to.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Stopped right there. Marriage isn't a special right that homosexuals are asking for sole access to.
    Who said anything about sole access? Women aren't looking for a sole access to go topless either, hypothetically, they'd be looking for equal access, so your point is what exactly?

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    Re: NOM’s July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Couple things:

    Civil unions are an attempt at giving a "separate but equal" status. Separate but equal is inherently unequal, because it carries with it a government-approved stigma of being separate, not worthy of using the same word as the rest of us. (Don't try to derail that statement with the racial segregation straw man.)
    Give it a rest with the civil rights movement comparison. Separate but equal? LMAO. Try as you will but there is no comparison to be made here. Nothing remotely similar at all. Blacks were discriminated against in virtually every possible way a person could be discriminated against and they had no protection under the law against such acts. The Civil Rights Act changed all of that. What is happening right now is ONLY about being able to marry. That's it. When you try to cast the plight to achieve marriage equality as one and the same with the plight to achieve racial equality, you are making a mockery of the civil rights movement. "We can't get married" is not even in the same ballpark with "we don't get paid as much", "our kids don't get a good education", "I can't get a decent meal at a restaurant", "I have to ride in the back of the bus", and finally....

    "MY SON GOT LYNCHED AND NOBODY CARES!!!"

    Your civil rights movement analogy sucks. Try that crap at a NAACP meeting sometime and see what kind of reception you get.



    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Nobody really gives a crap whether you personally approve of gay people using the word marriage. This isn't about you or your moral equivalency. It's not about your definition or my definition of a word. It's about how the government treats its citizens.
    Bull****. When you break this down to it's root, it's all about being socially accepted. Acknowledging the obvious is not a crime, ya know...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.

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