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Thread: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well, that's not my point. My point is that the anti-SSM are going to look ridiculous in later years just like those against interracial marriages are today.

    They aren't the same thing, but there are similiarities. That's not making them out to be the same. Things can be different but have similiarites to them.
    It's also ridiculous that we will look ridiculous. It should be the people that want men to have sex with men and women to have sex with women that look ridiculous.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Not even close.

    Except for the fact that they, unlike blacks, had the option of concealing their homosexuality. Their oppression was not even close to what the blacks faced in severity or volume. The comparison is false, and insulting. They need to illustrate their own strifes, and make posters and memes specific to their own struggles, instead of constantly jumping on the coat tails of the black community.
    So if someone had only "a drop" of black blood in them, and looked white, they should have hidden that, no matter how much they personally didn't have an issue with black people just to avoid persecution and being treated differently? Should those of certain faiths be expected to hide what their faith is because they can hide that easily to avoid persecution that is like that faced by a person based on their race?

    And yes, being involuntarily institutionalized and imprisoned for being who you are is at least just as bad as facing harsher treatments in public and less rights for who you are. Whether a trait can be hidden or not, doesn't change the fact that people were still persecuted for those traits when they were discovered.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 07-09-13 at 12:44 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #113
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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    The NAACP's support for gay marriage in no way equates the plight of Blacks during the civil rights era and the plight of homosexuals in gaining marriage rights. What people are attempting to do with this is to say that what the gay community is fighting for today akin to what Black people were fighting for in the 60s. The right to marry vs. equal protection under the law. Hmm... one has to do with oppression and the other has to do with getting some tax breaks.

    Give me a freaking break. The two aren't even remotely on the same level.
    They both have to do with oppression. Many of those looking to be recognized as married will get no actual tax breaks, and some will in fact owe more money to the government due to their marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #114
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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    According to the WiktionaryÖ

    Verb
    tolerate (third-person singular simple present tolerates, present participle tolerating, simple past and past participle tolerated)

    1. To allow (something that one dislikes or disagrees with) to exist or occur without interference.

    If you say that you are unwilling to tolerate a particular belief, then that means that you are not willing to allow this belief to be expressed without interference. To interfere with one's right to express a belief that you do not want to be expressed meets the definition of censorship. To tolerate something is to allow that thing to exist or occur, even if you do not like it. This is what you said you were unwilling to do.
    By that definition, there'd be no "Debate Politics." Wouldn't you have to "tolerate" what Obama says without disagreeing? Disagreeing with someone is very American. I can "tolerate" what you say, and still disagree. It is in fact, my right to say that I disagree, and you have to tolerate that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.

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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    In some ways, they endured worse.
    I disagree.

    Gays had to hide who they were from society or face involuntary institutionalization and/or imprisonment. And during this institutionalization, they had to endure everything from castration to lobotomies. The fact that much of this has been lost to history and isn't being brought up in the fight for gay rights (because it really has little to do with the rights being fought for right now) doesn't change the fact that these things did happen.
    At least they had the ability to hide, and give me a break on that involuntary institutionalization bit. You think the blacks volunteered to be purchased for use as farm equipment for 260 years? They endured the same treatment as cattle, including castration. Not only that, but if you were born to a mother who was a slave, that made you a slave by default, thanks to George Washington's temper tantrum over one of his slaves running away. There was nowhere to run, and no possible way to hide, since federal law mandated that runaway slaves must be returned to their owners upon recovery. What followed for a runaway after being returned was usually something unspeakable. The hotbox, hobbling, whipping, various torture techniques, extremely hard labor, deprivation of food and water, etc. Sometimes they'd just hang the runaway, and leave the carcass on the rope to serve as a visual warning for the other slaves.

    People are still losing their jobs for being gay, whereas not only has it been illegal for this to happen to people due to race for over 50 years now, but it is even illegal for a person to lose their job for the race of their spouse, but not the sex/gender of their spouse.


    Small potatoes.

    There are still some people trying to get off of sex offender lists just for being gay.

    Which isn't exclusive to homosexuals.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  6. #116
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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    I disagree.


    At least they had the ability to hide, and give me a break on that involuntary institutionalization bit. You think the blacks volunteered to be purchased for use as farm equipment for 260 years? They endured the same treatment as cattle, including castration. Not only that, but if you were born to a mother who was a slave, that made you a slave by default, thanks to George Washington's temper tantrum over one of his slaves running away. There was nowhere to run, and no possible way to hide, since federal law mandated that runaway slaves must be returned to their owners upon recovery. What followed for a runaway after being returned was usually something unspeakable. The hotbox, hobbling, whipping, various torture techniques, extremely hard labor, deprivation of food and water, etc. Sometimes they'd just hang the runaway, and leave the carcass on the rope to serve as a visual warning for the other slaves.

    Small potatoes.

    Which isn't exclusive to homosexuals.
    And being institutionalized or being sold into slavery are both wrong. So don't pretend that one is absolutely worse than the other. They are both horrible. And they both happened. Plus, if homosexuals were found out in the time when slaves were being sold in America, they were either executed or castrated. Pretty sure that is at least as bad as slavery.

    In this day and age, it is not "small potatoes". We are supposed to be improving ourselves, not allowing laws to continue to discriminate just because some believe that homosexuals "didn't have it as bad as blacks" did in the past.

    No, it isn't. But they are the only group that has people on there for simply being who they are, not just doing something that is considered "sexual".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #117
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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So if someone had only "a drop" of black blood in them, and looked white, they should have hidden that, no matter how much they personally didn't have an issue with black people just to avoid persecution and being treated differently?
    I would. It would probably keep my hands from being tied to the hitch of a truck by Billy Backwoods, leaving the DPS the task of cleaning a three mile long blood smear off of the road.

    Should those of certain faiths be expected to hide what their faith is because they can hide that easily to avoid persecution that is like that faced by a person based on their race?
    You mean the faiths that facilitated the persecution and murder of "witches", heathens, heretics, homosexuals, Jews, blacks, gypsies, Pollocks, members of the wrong sect or religion, etc? They can cry me a river.

    And yes, being involuntarily institutionalized and imprisoned for being who you are is at least just as bad as facing harsher treatments in public and less rights for who you are. Whether a trait can be hidden or not, doesn't change the fact that people were still persecuted for those traits when they were discovered.
    Except blacks didn't go to jail back then, there was no release or pardon. Their term was permanent. If you run away, you get sent back where you're either tortured or murdered. After emancipation, they were killed on the spot, or black-bagged and hung from a tree in the middle of a rally. Gays did not endure the same hardships as the blacks. There is no valid comparison to be made.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    It's also ridiculous that we will look ridiculous.
    No it isn't. It's reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    It should be the people that want men to have sex with men and women to have sex with women that look ridiculous.
    Nope, they don't Next?

  9. #119
    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    No it isn't. It's reality.



    Nope, they don't Next?
    I was saying that it is ridiculous, though I know it will probably be reality as America's morality descends even further.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: NOMís July 4th message: Are you LGBT or are you American? [W:45]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And being institutionalized or being sold into slavery are both wrong. So don't pretend that one is absolutely worse than the other. They are both horrible. And they both happened. Plus, if homosexuals were found out in the time when slaves were being sold in America, they were either executed or castrated. Pretty sure that is at least as bad as slavery.
    One is absolutely worst than the other. Have you ever been locked up? You don't have to do **** except sit on your ass and not cause trouble. Free food, free clothing, they do your laundry for you, and as long as you don't piss off the wrong people, it's a ****ing vacation.


    In this day and age, it is not "small potatoes". We are supposed to be improving ourselves, not allowing laws to continue to discriminate just because some believe that homosexuals "didn't have it as bad as blacks" did in the past.
    Actually, they discriminate because of religious and traditional beliefs that view homosexuality as being morally wrong. Thinly veiled ad homs aren't an argument.

    No, it isn't. But they are the only group that has people on there for simply being who they are, not just doing something that is considered "sexual".
    That's a crap argument and you know it. They were convicted for the sexual act of sodomy, which was a stupid law. Just like putting a 17 year old kid in jail for having sex with a 16 year old girl is stupid. That kid was just being who he is, no different than the gay, or the drunk guy who lost his pants.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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