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Thread: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

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    The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    From the Atlantic Wire.....it appears we weren't exactly given all the truth about those drones for the Border. Used by DHS. Imagine that.....a non Right Leaning Source reporting on it.


    Documents obtained by the Electronic Frontier Foundation from the Department of Homeland Security's Customs and Border Patrol indicate that the agency is close to finalizing payload standards for its drone aircraft. Among the things the CBP wants to use in its unmanned aircraft: "non-lethal weapons designed to immobilize" targets.

    In 2009, the agency announced that it had acquired its sixth Predator drone, stationed at an Army Airfield in Arizona. The agency trumpeted its successes:

    A fact sheet provided by the agency notes the current capabilities of the aircraft, including electro-optical/infrared sensors and "Surface Search Radar/Ground Moving Target Indicator." The specific drone rolled out in 2009 was loaded with "the Raytheon MTS-B Multi-Spectral Targeting System (with electro-optical, infrared, laser designation, and laser illumination capabilities) and Synthetic Aperture Radar." Raytheon describes the capabilities of the MTS-B: "provides long-range surveillance, high-altitude target acquisition, tracking, rangefinding, and laser designation for the HELLFIRE missile and for all tri-service and NATO laser-guided munitions." You can see the surveillance systems at work in this video, shot at the Mexican border; obviously, the CBP drones aren't HELLFIRE equipped.

    But they may soon have weapons. The 2010 documents released to the EFF under the Freedom of Information Act suggest that the FAA is mandating standards affecting the devices' Communication, Navigation, Surveillance / Air Traffic Management (CNS/ATM) equipment, which could require upgrades. The document continues, with emphasis added.

    Mission sensor upgrades could include improving SAR point target resolution to well below one foot, a simultaneous SAR-GMTIIMMTI mode and advanced ATR/ATC algorithms. Visual and IR band sensors will be updated with newer generation arrays. The addition of an Electronic Support Measures suite with specific emitter identification will increase mission effectiveness by enabling the UAS to independently perform the SDCIP Identification task. Additional payload upgrades could include expendables or non-lethal weapons designed to immobilize TOIs.



    The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    It seems to mention Non-lethal arms to them. I would have to imagine that to use the full capabilities of a drone would be the best way to deliver a non-lethal payload. A lot of what you highlighted seems to be drone capabilities that allow it to be an accurate delivery system for lethal munitions. Non-lethal munitions tend to need to be very accurate because it is hard to get the "kill" zone of a lethal device to match an effective zone for a nonlethal device. Plus the drone capabilities which let it spot hidden soldiers are probably fvery useful for helping them spot hidden border jumpers. Drones would be extremely valuable for the purposes of spotting border jumpers. If they are loaded with non-lethal munitions then the whole argument about them being used to kill border jumpers goes out the window.

    The only argument I have with a non-lethal solution is you have to punish them or they will try again, and then we have to house them in our prison system and pay a lot of money for them. If we were going to try and secure the border it would be much better to use a lethal deterrent. If we are going to go spend all that money I would rather not give more to the prisoner for profit system and put the money into better defined systems of identification for employment and residence establishment and eliminate the ability of illegals to get services and establish a permanent residence while allowing them to remain and spend money.

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    It seems to mention Non-lethal arms to them. I would have to imagine that to use the full capabilities of a drone would be the best way to deliver a non-lethal payload. A lot of what you highlighted seems to be drone capabilities that allow it to be an accurate delivery system for lethal munitions. Non-lethal munitions tend to need to be very accurate because it is hard to get the "kill" zone of a lethal device to match an effective zone for a nonlethal device. Plus the drone capabilities which let it spot hidden soldiers are probably fvery useful for helping them spot hidden border jumpers. Drones would be extremely valuable for the purposes of spotting border jumpers. If they are loaded with non-lethal munitions then the whole argument about them being used to kill border jumpers goes out the window.

    The only argument I have with a non-lethal solution is you have to punish them or they will try again, and then we have to house them in our prison system and pay a lot of money for them. If we were going to try and secure the border it would be much better to use a lethal deterrent. If we are going to go spend all that money I would rather not give more to the prisoner for profit system and put the money into better defined systems of identification for employment and residence establishment and eliminate the ability of illegals to get services and establish a permanent residence while allowing them to remain and spend money.
    Heya TR. Yes.....it is exactly just like what is used for any payloads. Which is why the Atlantic is reporting on it.

    (We assessed the effectiveness of the CBP's recent expansion of its resources on the border last month. There hasn't been a correlation between increased resources and more apprehensions.).....snip~

    I think it could be argued that DHS wouldn't come clean concerning any use with any type of payload, anyways. I would also have to agree with what you stated with what I bolded. Good Post TR! Informative & Creative

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya TR. Yes.....it is exactly just like what is used for any payloads. Which is why the Atlantic is reporting on it.

    (We assessed the effectiveness of the CBP's recent expansion of its resources on the border last month. There hasn't been a correlation between increased resources and more apprehensions.).....snip~

    I think it could be argued that DHS wouldn't come clean concerning any use with any type of payload, anyways. I would also have to agree with what you stated with what I bolded. Good Post TR! Informative & Creative
    I really do not trust the DHS at all now. until they are reigned back in i would prefer it if they just were issued BB guns and a decoder ring. Under a transparent system with public oversight I would be far more trusting of these drones. The reality is right now i oppose them because i am sure they will be used to spy on US citizens and have nothing to do with border partrol.

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    Be OK with me if we had drones on the border armed with lethal weapons. We need to secure the border and it takes what it takes.

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    Given all the hubub over the cost of securing the border, I'm starting to lean toward just mining the damn thing.

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    I would not want to see DHS, INS/ICE, or Border Patrol using non-lethal armaments on these drones. To be truly effective they need LETHAL munitions and we should leave the dead bodies out in the desert as a warning to future illegals.

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I would not want to see DHS, INS/ICE, or Border Patrol using non-lethal armaments on these drones. To be truly effective they need LETHAL munitions and we should leave the dead bodies out in the desert as a warning to future illegals.
    Wow.

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I would not want to see DHS, INS/ICE, or Border Patrol using non-lethal armaments on these drones. To be truly effective they need LETHAL munitions and we should leave the dead bodies out in the desert as a warning to future illegals.
    That might be effective. It is, however, medieval, and I'd like to think, as civilized people, that we're a little beyond leaving corpses to the buzzards. I mean, even Neanderthal buried his dead.

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    Re: The Border Patrol Wants to Arm Drones.....

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    That might be effective. It is, however, medieval, and I'd like to think, as civilized people, that we're a little beyond leaving corpses to the buzzards. I mean, even Neanderthal buried his dead.
    I have no problem with "medieval", as you know. Why was the real Dracula so feared?.... He made it very clearly visible what happened to those who crossed him.

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