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Thread: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

  1. #31
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    Re: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    The NSA wiretapping scandal began in 2001. It had even been revealed that the NSA had a contract with several large telecommunications companies that allowed the monitoring and tracking of calls without wiretaps. This has been ongoing for 12 years, and nothing new was revealed. Americans just have pathetically short memory spans.
    Is it amnesia, or simply ignorance?

    NYT kept the NSA warrantless searches COVERED UP for more than a year. James Risen's work.

    AT & Treason was happy to oblige the assault on the Fourth Amendment.

    I think it was complete ignorance for many, but you're right that our selective amnesia also played a role.

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    Re: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Is it amnesia, or simply ignorance?

    NYT kept the NSA warrantless searches COVERED UP for more than a year. James Risen's work.

    AT & Treason was happy to oblige the assault on the Fourth Amendment.

    I think it was complete ignorance for many, but you're right that our selective amnesia also played a role.
    I honestly don't know what it is, but as much as they tried to cover it up, it still came out. Just like the Ports of Dubai scandal that came up, people forgot about that in a week. Starting to think that memory eraser gadget from Men in Black is a real thing.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  3. #33
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    Re: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    It was never limited. The NSA has been monitoring communications since the Patriot Act. If people didn't know, they weren't paying attention and they're stupid for not giving a **** when the scandal first hit in the early 2000's. It was already revealed long ago that the NSA had contracts with major telecommunication companies, namely AT&T. I'm starting to feel like I'm one of very few people here who remembers any of this. It made headlines all over the US, and wasn't even that long ago FFS.
    I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details? If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details?
    Education and knowledge are a personal responsibility. The worst part is that this event was reported on, and Americans apparently didn't care enough to remember it, so now that we're reminded of what we should have already known, it's a brand new outrage, same as the last forgotten outrage. If the People don't care enough to know what's going on, they reap the consequences of their apathy, and we collectively deserve every bit of it.

    If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
    This problem goes back well beyond Obama, even before the Patriot Act. The problem is that we're a nation of spoiled, fat children who expect o have everything handed to us. the government bends over backwards to accommodate that, and in doing so, violates the Constitution, and every sense of human decency to make sure Uncle Sam's hundreds of millions of little babies get what they want. It's a continuous cycle of enabling, and it's not something to be proud of. It's a cancer that needs to be cut out and incinerated. This country is sick and dying, and nobody in this country seems to give a ****, and long as they can get what's in it for them.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  5. #35
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    Re: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details? If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
    CJ, the problem is that many people do expect our elected officials to know what they are voting on! Unfortunately, the average man on the street is not one who follows happenings in DC, and our representatives are counting on that! It makes their jobs easier if they don't have to have their staff read that pesky boring stuff, which is why things are as they are, IMO. This can't go on forever, though, but it's so messy now that it will doubtless be too late for easy changes when someone decides to honestly tackle this! I shudder to contemplate the level of screaming that will be heard then!

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    Re: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Education and knowledge are a personal responsibility. The worst part is that this event was reported on, and Americans apparently didn't care enough to remember it, so now that we're reminded of what we should have already known, it's a brand new outrage, same as the last forgotten outrage. If the People don't care enough to know what's going on, they reap the consequences of their apathy, and we collectively deserve every bit of it.


    This problem goes back well beyond Obama, even before the Patriot Act. The problem is that we're a nation of spoiled, fat children who expect o have everything handed to us. the government bends over backwards to accommodate that, and in doing so, violates the Constitution, and every sense of human decency to make sure Uncle Sam's hundreds of millions of little babies get what they want. It's a continuous cycle of enabling, and it's not something to be proud of. It's a cancer that needs to be cut out and incinerated. This country is sick and dying, and nobody in this country seems to give a ****, and long as they can get what's in it for them.
    I don't agree that the extent of government collection of communications data by the NSA was reported on previously. There was, to my recollection, concern that the FISA court was perhaps being used inappropriately by Bush, but that was never proven and congress worked towards more controls and information related to FISA court matters. In the latest revelations, it's not a matter of the FISA courts being abused, it's the FISA court being initially ignored because the NSA isn't listening in, originally, their just scooping up all communications activity between anyone in the US and someone outside the US.

    As I said, the American people may be supportive of these actions, if they were made aware of them and the rationale for them. The administration, like many before it, doesn't trust the American people to agree with them so they don't share information. If you believe this administration is the "most transparent in history", you deserve to be in the dark.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details? If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
    Easy there, John. Don't inject too much common sense into the thread. I'm not sure the participants can take it.

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