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Thread: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

  1. #21
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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Like I said...Im glad to note that you would prefer the rule of Saddam and the Taliban. THIER record on the matters...well...it was pretty clear. But in case you missed it, we can probably post the videos again of the hangings, the burned bodies, the women stoned for the crime of being raped, etc. Me...Id take the OPPORTUNITY for self determination, democracy, even...whats that label you like...oh yeah...progress...over what was already known. But...hey...different strokes.
    OH PLAHEEZE!!!! As if it was about removing Saddam, or any of a dozen other cruel dudes, or for that matter the Taliban. Russia tried for 10 years and the backlash was the Taliban, wonder what our leaving will unleash?

    Have you not been paying attention to the reports out of Iraq AFTER Saddam was hung??? Still murders, mutilations, hangings, girls being killed attending schools- what exactly changed beyond the murderers are a bit more diverse? Suicide bombers, mosques attacked.... Iran delving into Iraqi politics.... yeah that's progress we can be proud of and well worth the dead, mutilated Americans along with a trillion or so dollars.

    I wouldn't expend so many lives and money on Afghanistan as 'opportunity' in that country is more like a forlorn hope than realistic opportunity. I wish the Neo-cons had read history instead of arrogantly thinking history starts today.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    OH PLAHEEZE!!!! As if it was about removing Saddam, or any of a dozen other cruel dudes, or for that matter the Taliban. Russia tried for 10 years and the backlash was the Taliban, wonder what our leaving will unleash?

    Have you not been paying attention to the reports out of Iraq AFTER Saddam was hung??? Still murders, mutilations, hangings, girls being killed attending schools- what exactly changed beyond the murderers are a bit more diverse? Suicide bombers, mosques attacked.... Iran delving into Iraqi politics.... yeah that's progress we can be proud of and well worth the dead, mutilated Americans along with a trillion or so dollars.

    I wouldn't expend so many lives and money on Afghanistan as 'opportunity' in that country is more like a forlorn hope than realistic opportunity. I wish the Neo-cons had read history instead of arrogantly thinking history starts today.
    I cant dictate what the Iraqis choose post Saddam nor the Afghanis post Taliban. Point of fact we should have helped both of them elect a government and left...Bush's biggest failing was their post war ops. If they want to choose fundamentalism...OK. If they want to allow Al Qaida back in, they get what they deserve. I cant address what tomorrow will hold for them...thats THEIR choice. We DID address the knowns. The Russians couldn't pull it off...we managed to defeat the Taliban and Saddam n the combined span of about 3 months. We created an environment where their people could select their own fate.

    But...I get your point and will continue to return to it since you continue to embrace it. You long for the days of Saddam in Iraq and the Taliban rule. Things were so swell...and held such promise.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I cant dictate what the Iraqis choose post Saddam nor the Afghanis post Taliban. Point of fact we should have helped both of them elect a government and left...Bush's biggest failing was their post war ops. If they want to choose fundamentalism...OK. If they want to allow Al Qaida back in, they get what they deserve. I cant address what tomorrow will hold for them...thats THEIR choice. We DID address the knowns. The Russians couldn't pull it off...we managed to defeat the Taliban and Saddam n the combined span of about 3 months. We created an environment where their people could select their own fate.

    But...I get your point and will continue to return to it since you continue to embrace it. You long for the days of Saddam in Iraq and the Taliban rule. Things were so swell...and held such promise.
    first point to where I ever posted I long for Saddam or the Taliban? You are creating an apposing position to argue against rather than the one I present.... tacky as hell.

    Next we didn't defeat anyone in Afghanistan, that is the typical flawed mindset that hinders rational decision making BEFORE attacking a country long steeped in fighting invaders. We didn't defeat anyone, they simply went underground or to safe havens. Many we call Taliban fighters simply put down their weapons and waited.

    Next in Iraq we didn't give 'the people' a chance at anything but more murder and mayhem. More like we pulled the cork on a volatile mix of tribe/religion that the Neo-Cons were clueless about and clueless how to stop. it was our 'help' in electing a new government that was AS responsible for the violence as unleashing the various factions to wage retribution on each other. you can't point at just one part of the Iraqi debacle and say flawed when it was a screwed pooch from the git-go.

    Revisionists are going to work long and hard to make Iraq about freedom and 'a chance' but the real bottom line was a very flawed attempt to put a strong pro-USofA nation as a bulwark against Iran and it's designs on the Middle East/Israel that just happens to have massive oil reserves...

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    first point to where I ever posted I long for Saddam or the Taliban? You are creating an apposing position to argue against rather than the one I present.... tacky as hell.

    Next we didn't defeat anyone in Afghanistan, that is the typical flawed mindset that hinders rational decision making BEFORE attacking a country long steeped in fighting invaders. We didn't defeat anyone, they simply went underground or to safe havens. Many we call Taliban fighters simply put down their weapons and waited.

    Next in Iraq we didn't give 'the people' a chance at anything but more murder and mayhem. More like we pulled the cork on a volatile mix of tribe/religion that the Neo-Cons were clueless about and clueless how to stop. it was our 'help' in electing a new government that was AS responsible for the violence as unleashing the various factions to wage retribution on each other. you can't point at just one part of the Iraqi debacle and say flawed when it was a screwed pooch from the git-go.

    Revisionists are going to work long and hard to make Iraq about freedom and 'a chance' but the real bottom line was a very flawed attempt to put a strong pro-USofA nation as a bulwark against Iran and it's designs on the Middle East/Israel that just happens to have massive oil reserves...
    You can keep bitching and whining about neocons and longing for the good old days when Saddam brutalized his people and the Taliban killed men for acting effeminate, let alone actually being gay. Whatever works for you.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You can keep bitching and whining about neocons and longing for the good old days when Saddam brutalized his people and the Taliban killed men for acting effeminate, let alone actually being gay. Whatever works for you.
    And you can keep attempting to justify thousands of dead and maimed soldiers, the trillions spent on the debacle of Iraq and the folly of nation building in Afghanistan as they was bad men when in most parts of the world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a dozen very bad men.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    If we wanted to win the hearts and minds of the people in the middle east we would not have sent soldiers. Soldiers are not trained to win the hearts and minds of people, they are trained for combat which is probably directly contradictory to winning the hearts and minds of people. It forces me to ask the question on whether or not the US people would accept an armed presence in their streets by their own military, or would they resent them? If we do not even want our military securing our streets, why would another country want it? The hearts and minds lie is something that allows the war mongers to pretend to be doing other people a favor by killing them. It works well because there are many who feel these other countries should be greateful for americans shooting them in their own streets. The fact that so many americans bought into that stupid BS shows me that I really overestimated their intelligence levels and compassion. That is really sad because i always have had a large negative overall opinion of the US populace.
    If we had been taken over by a Taliban'esq type government and a friendly nation came in to destroy that government and give us our freedom back? I don't think I would resent them much. Should the French, Italians, Germans and Dutch resent America for sending troops to their countries?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    And you can keep attempting to justify thousands of dead and maimed soldiers, the trillions spent on the debacle of Iraq and the folly of nation building in Afghanistan as they was bad men when in most parts of the world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a dozen very bad men.
    We should have just left Hitler alone, too. Huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If we had been taken over by a Taliban'esq type government and a friendly nation came in to destroy that government and give us our freedom back? I don't think I would resent them much. Should the French, Italians, Germans and Dutch resent America for sending troops to their countries?
    Yes, you would resent them. If russia came to save you from Obama I really doubt you would be happy with them.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Yes, you would resent them. If russia came to save you from Obama I really doubt you would be happy with them.
    Are you comparing honorable American troops to The Red Army? How insulting is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Report: Subcontractors in Afghanistan Do Crazy Things When They Don't Get Paid

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    And you can keep attempting to justify thousands of dead and maimed soldiers, the trillions spent on the debacle of Iraq and the folly of nation building in Afghanistan as they was bad men when in most parts of the world you can't swing a dead cat and not hit a dozen very bad men.
    Dont have to 'justify' anything. Democrat and republican alike all seem to believe that taking out Al Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan was the 'right' thing to do. People can disagree with taking out Saddam, but hey...they can also disagree about every president, every military action ever taken. Justify it? To you? Please. As if I give a **** about you. I have spent 7 trips to the middle east under the command of republican and democrat President alike. I sent young men and women into Bosnia to take out a guy that represented no threat to the US. Funny...I never heard many of the bleeding heart liberals bemoaning their evil neocon president Clinton, there or during the numerous attacks against Iraq during his presidency. I have a son in the ME now. I am fine with the war. I think Bush mishandled the post war ops and we should have been gone from both places a long time ago...but thats just me. Personally Im glad the Iraqis don't have to deal with Saddam or his sons and had the opportunity to create a government. I'm glad the Taliban isnt there in charge of Afghanistan pushing buildings on top of homosexuals burying them alive, stoning them for even ACTING effeminate (lord knows they would **** up a few people in this country given the chance, right?), killing women for the crime of teaching girls to read, etc. Perfect world? Doesnt exist. Make the best of what you have. Afghanistan and Iraq have 'opportunity'. Squander that opportunity...**** them...their problem. Dont like that opinion? **** you...thats your problem. Now you go ahead and keep on bleating and bemoaning the ouster of Saddam and the Taliban. Carry on.

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