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Thread: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

  1. #51
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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If that means them being tortured to death, it is unacceptable.
    that is not for our nation to determine

    it is a matter between a foreign citizen and their country of origin

    the world is not our nanny state
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #52
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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    we have no right or obligation to worry about the citizens of other countries
    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that is not for our nation to determine

    it is a matter between a foreign citizen and their country of origin

    the world is not our nanny state
    It appears that your objective is the absolution of responsibility and not justice. Gitmo is not simple and it is not something that the US can wash its hands of; there can be no absolution. Your objective is fantasy, like a communist or fundie. When you're ready to deal with reality perhaps debate can ensue.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-23-13 at 02:19 AM.

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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    ...why is this suddenly an issue right now?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It appears that your objective is the absolution of responsibility and not justice. Gitmo is not simple and it is not something that the US can wash its hands of; there can be no absolution. Your objective is fantasy, like a communist or fundie. When you're ready to deal with reality perhaps debate can ensue.
    you are correct about one thing
    the debate is over
    you have nothing
    there is no basis for us to continue to hold those prisoners who have been adjudicated to be not guilty
    but do explain for us the justice of continuing to imprison those determined to be not guilty
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but do explain for us the justice of continuing to imprison those determined to be not guilty
    Sending them home would result in death by torture. Compared to that, Gitmo ain't so bad and individual justice is served. Could we do better than Gitmo? Yes. Does that mean Gitmo is the worst option? No.

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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Sending them home would result in death by torture. Compared to that, Gitmo ain't so bad and individual justice is served. Could we do better than Gitmo? Yes. Does that mean Gitmo is the worst option? No.
    please document for us the fact that gitmo prisoners released to their home country would be tortured and/or killed

    then share with us why we, as a nation, have an obligation to determine how a nation interacts with its citizens
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #57
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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    please document for us the fact that gitmo prisoners released to their home country would be tortured and/or killed
    FAQs: International Protection for Guantánamo Prisoners who Cannot be Safely Repatriated | Center for Constitutional Rights

    then share with us why we, as a nation, have an obligation to determine how a nation interacts with its citizens
    It's not about determining how those nations "interact with their citizens", it's about human rights and justice - and what the US can do to preserve such even under the imperfect circumstances of Gitmo prisoners.

    It's not about controlling other countries. It's about US sovereignty and an obligation to inmates to not make things worse. No country has the right to force the US into to turning people over to torturous death.

    There's no attempt to force other countries to do anything, merely an attempt to see justice served and inmates spared human rights abuses.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-23-13 at 03:29 AM.

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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more: Obama

    Apparently closing a facility that violates human rights, and that needed to be closed a long time ago, and barring prisoners to be transferred that have already have been transferred is "being weak on terrorism". Can we move away form these idiotic talking points and actually just close the **** hole down already? It hurts are international reputation, Islamic extremist terrorists use it as propaganda to recruit people to "fight against the great Satan", and its inherently unjust. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Closing the Guantanamo prison does not mean the prisoners will be released. They'll just be transferred to another facility, and their situation won't get any better there. Especially if it's operated by the CIA.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then share with us why we, as a nation, have an obligation to determine how a nation interacts with its citizens
    You're the one who wants to determine how another nation "interacts with it's citizens", by forcing other nations to take citizens that they refuse.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-23-13 at 03:44 AM.

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    Re: Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more: Obama

    Apparently closing a facility that violates human rights, and that needed to be closed a long time ago, and barring prisoners to be transferred that have already have been transferred is "being weak on terrorism". Can we move away form these idiotic talking points and actually just close the **** hole down already? It hurts are international reputation, Islamic extremist terrorists use it as propaganda to recruit people to "fight against the great Satan", and its inherently unjust. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    The funny thing about this "push" to close Gitmo is that he only seems to "push" this when he needs to distract from other news....
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

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