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Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

TheDemSocialist said:
No. I do have a source that says that US forces were sent to Jordan to only train Jordanian military in October, and then i have another source that says that in November our forces there were sent to train Syrian rebels as well, and that the White House does not want to comment on.
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If you understand that those are two separate events and neither was denied, how can you claim that the US has been lying regarding the rebel training?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
And i said i agree.


And i also said i agree.



No. I do have a source that says that US forces were sent to Jordan to only train Jordanian military in October, and then i have another source that says that in November our forces there were sent to train Syrian rebels as well, and that the White House does not want to comment on.
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Well, to be fair, not commenting on something or not making announcements about things is different than lying about something.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, to be fair, not commenting on something or not making announcements about things is different than lying about something.
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How is not telling the truth different from a lie?
 
humbolt said:
How is not telling the truth different from a lie?
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Not commenting is not lying OR not telling the truth. It's simply not commenting at all. If you don't say anything, you can't really be lying now can you?

Besides, I already noted that they are NOT above lying to us, but saying "no comment" is not lying.
 
ChrisL said:
Not commenting is not lying OR not telling the truth. It's simply not commenting at all. If you don't say anything, you can't really be lying now can you?

Besides, I already noted that they are NOT above lying to us, but saying "no comment" is not lying.
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Yep, you've got a point. I don't think any administration is above lying. I do think that after using "no comment" a few dozen times, the public begins to get the idea that the lead of the question that requires such a response is a tacit acknowledgement that the "lead" was correct. I'd call that a lie, but I'm not the judge and I'm not privy to all the implications, either.
 
humbolt said:
Yep, you've got a point. I don't think any administration is above lying. I do think that after using "no comment" a few dozen times, the public begins to get the idea that the lead of the question that requires such a response is a tacit acknowledgement that the "lead" was correct. I'd call that a lie, but I'm not the judge and I'm not privy to all the implications, either.
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Well you have a point too, seeing as how this administration claimed that it would be so "transparent." LOL! I still can't help but laugh at how naive many of Obama's campaign promises were, and people didn't even see that at all. A lot of people actually believed his naive statements. To me, that really highlighted how inexperienced he really was and how he really kind of had no clue what he was getting himself into. :lol:

Not really that funny, but all you can do at this point is laugh.
 
ChrisL said:
Well you have a point too, seeing as how this administration claimed that it would be so "transparent." LOL! I still can't help but laugh at how naive many of Obama's campaign promises were, and people didn't even see that at all. A lot of people actually believed his naive statements. To me, that really highlighted how inexperienced he really was and how he really kind of had no clue what he was getting himself into. :lol:

Not really that funny, but all you can do at this point is laugh.
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Many of us had the same reaction. Giving speeches with high-minded ideals is wonderful, and telling people what they want to hear is easy. The hard part comes with actual doing, and it is painfully obvious that getting elected was the end of the high-minded stuff. I do get riled a bit when I view the divisiveness Obama has fostered intentionally. It's sad that our politics has reached such a low, but in fairness, Obama's had some help getting us there from all sides - if in no other way than the predictability of opposition response.
 
polgara said:
Evening, CJ! It has been in the mid- 90s and very dry since I got here! Too warm for someone who is visiting from the land of ice and snow, but I am getting used to it! :lamo: It's done nothing but rain in NE Ohio since I left at the end of May, according to calls I have received!

I am walking unassisted now. Not fast, mind you, but the surgeon said when I could throw the walker at him, he might consider letting me get on a plane and return home! Yay! Maybe in a week or so, but we'll see.

Daughter expecting lots of company tonight, to view the big Supermoon that's expected. Margaritas are being served. Yum! Dogs have been acting skittish all day, which I find interesting. Won't let me out of their sight, and they whine if I go out without letting them out too, and then they lay at my feet????? Is your ladydog acting different today?
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Good to hear about the recovery - very hot and humid here this week - next weekend supposed to break the humidity and be nice, so you should stay in Texas for the week. Miss Mocha hasn't been acting any differently yesterday or this morning - the moon was a little bigger and brighter on our walk this morning, but the moon was huge one day last year, much bigger and closer, so I guess it depends on where on the globe you are - it's probably bigger the closer you get to the equator.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I wish one could read...
"The United States military has secretly sent a task force of more than 150 planners and other specialists to Jordan to help the armed forces there handle a flood of Syrian refugees, prepare for the possibility that Syria will lose control of its chemical weapons and be positioned should the turmoil in Syria expand into a wider conflict."
--
No where does it mention anything about training rebels.
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That is correct. You're the one who made that claim. Thank you for making my point.:cool:
 
TheDemSocialist said:
There is certainly a reason to suspect it.. We have been and are training them to use them in neighboring countries.


Only source i from are sources you would specifically disregard.. You know RT, and other "fringe blogs", and the Syrian gov.. And no the White House did not confirm it they simply claimed US were sent there to train the Jordanian military in case the civil war spills over into Jordan.
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You know that we've been arming them all along, discreetly. So far there are 93,000 dead but as the USA gets more involved this figure will drop to perhaps 1,200 or less as the press brigade run by US intelligence uses the same body count media it used in Iraq. Some people are paid to spout the gov't line on forums and you can see that like a flashing bright light.
 
stonewall50 said:
I doubt it would be a threat to even a predator drone...which is what would likely blow it up.
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So, the CIA is giving them weapons, and teaching them to use those weapons, but they're not effective weapons?
 
CanadaJohn said:
So in other words, Obama was being deceitful but now that it's beneficial to wag the dog, get the media's attention off his multiple scandals, the White House has leaked this information to a compliant press.
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I predicted this two weeks ago.
 
Now, it seems the rebels are fighting amongst themselves.

Abu Azzam’s targeting has blown open a sharp rift and long-brewing conflict between the more secular nationwide Farouq brigades and the Jabhat. The two groups are among the most effective, best organized and most well-known of the many military outfits aligned against Syrian President Bashar Assad — and the fight between them is just beginning.

Read more: In Syria, the Rebels Have Begun to Fight Among Themselves | TIME.com
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Dittohead not! said:
Now, it seems the rebels are fighting amongst themselves.
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Not just them either.....al Nusra and AQ as well. Plus now AQ vs AQ.

The Qatar-based Al-Jazeera TV reported that al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahri urged leaders of the Iraqi al-Qaida branch and the Nusra Front in Syria to end their disagreements and "stop any verbal or actual attacks against one another."

Al-Zawahri's call could also reflect a bid to carve out a more significant role for al-Qaida in the Syria civil war. Jabhat al-Nusra, or the Nusra Front, is the most powerful rebel force fighting to topple President Bashar Assad.

In April, al-Qaida in Iraq said it had joined forces with the Nusra Front, forming a new alliance called the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant.

In Sunday's letter, al-Zawahri chastises the head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, saying he announced the merger without consulting al-Qaida's leadership. He also admonished al-Golani for publicly distancing himself from the merger.

"The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant will be abolished," al-Zawahri said, adding that Nusra Front will remain an independent branch of al-Qaida. Al-Baghdadi and al-Golani are to stay on as leaders of their respective branches for another year, after which the al-Qaida leadership will decide whether they will keep their posts or be replaced

The merger had also caused friction among rebels on the battlefield who feared the announcement would further discourage Western powers discussing funneling weapons, training and aid toward rebel groups and army defectors.....snip~

Al-Qaida leader scraps Syria, Iraq branch merger

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/164256-concerning-al-qaida.html


Al-Qaida's Iraq head defies boss over Syria fight.....

The leader of al-Qaida's Iraq arm defiantly rejected an order from the terror network's central command to stop claiming control over the organization's Syria affiliate, according to a message purportedly from him that was posted online Saturday.

"The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant will continue," al-Baghdadi said. "We will not compromise and we will not give up."
Al-Baghdadi is now defying that command. In his statement, he referred to "the letter attributed to Sheik al-Zawahiri," suggesting he was calling into question the authenticity of the letter. "I chose the command of God over the command that runs against it in the letter," al-Baghdadi said.....snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/164256-concerning-al-qaida.html

IMO.....the FSA couldn't stop weapons from falling into the hands of AQ or others, ever!
 
MMC said:
Not just them either.....al Nusra and AQ as well. Plus now AQ vs AQ.

The Qatar-based Al-Jazeera TV reported that al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahri urged leaders of the Iraqi al-Qaida branch and the Nusra Front in Syria to end their disagreements and "stop any verbal or actual attacks against one another."

Al-Zawahri's call could also reflect a bid to carve out a more significant role for al-Qaida in the Syria civil war. Jabhat al-Nusra, or the Nusra Front, is the most powerful rebel force fighting to topple President Bashar Assad.

In April, al-Qaida in Iraq said it had joined forces with the Nusra Front, forming a new alliance called the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant.

In Sunday's letter, al-Zawahri chastises the head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, saying he announced the merger without consulting al-Qaida's leadership. He also admonished al-Golani for publicly distancing himself from the merger.

"The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant will be abolished," al-Zawahri said, adding that Nusra Front will remain an independent branch of al-Qaida. Al-Baghdadi and al-Golani are to stay on as leaders of their respective branches for another year, after which the al-Qaida leadership will decide whether they will keep their posts or be replaced

The merger had also caused friction among rebels on the battlefield who feared the announcement would further discourage Western powers discussing funneling weapons, training and aid toward rebel groups and army defectors.....snip~

Al-Qaida leader scraps Syria, Iraq branch merger

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/164256-concerning-al-qaida.html


Al-Qaida's Iraq head defies boss over Syria fight.....

The leader of al-Qaida's Iraq arm defiantly rejected an order from the terror network's central command to stop claiming control over the organization's Syria affiliate, according to a message purportedly from him that was posted online Saturday.

"The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant will continue," al-Baghdadi said. "We will not compromise and we will not give up."
Al-Baghdadi is now defying that command. In his statement, he referred to "the letter attributed to Sheik al-Zawahiri," suggesting he was calling into question the authenticity of the letter. "I chose the command of God over the command that runs against it in the letter," al-Baghdadi said.....snip~

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/164256-concerning-al-qaida.html

IMO.....the FSA couldn't stop weapons from falling into the hands of AQ or others, ever!
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Maybe we should send arms.

and let Russia arm Assad, and just sit back and let them wipe each other out.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Maybe we should send arms.

and let Russia arm Assad, and just sit back and let them wipe each other out.
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Just nicked a quote from an English forum..

Maybe you would be interested in reading it??

''I do not hate America, i hate its double standards, i hate ,its hypocrisy, i hate its ignorance , i hate ,it's lack of democracy ,i hate , its law of the jungle attitude , i hate its attitude of self superiority, i hate its contempt for other countries a person who embraced and displayed those tendencies to me would not be a friend of mine.
My view of America distorts nothing , only a fool would disregard all i had said and deny any of it !! i have nothing against the people themselves just how the people who run their country from lowly politicians , so my disgust at America is how its run and how its Govt behaves .
As for how its Congress men and women behave , well i must admit I've bought more intelligent tins of paint at times.
No i don't hate the American people and my views are not distorted but i intensely dislike how the USA is run, by corrupt officials so corrupt that any sane person wonders how they got the job??? but i suppose if you tell enough lies you can fool all of the people SOME OF THE TIME. (as we in the UK are learning now).
 
wolfie said:
Just nicked a quote from an English forum..

Maybe you would be interested in reading it??

''I do not hate America, i hate its double standards, i hate ,its hypocrisy, i hate its ignorance , i hate ,it's lack of democracy ,i hate , its law of the jungle attitude , i hate its attitude of self superiority, i hate its contempt for other countries a person who embraced and displayed those tendencies to me would not be a friend of mine.
My view of America distorts nothing , only a fool would disregard all i had said and deny any of it !! i have nothing against the people themselves just how the people who run their country from lowly politicians , so my disgust at America is how its run and how its Govt behaves .
As for how its Congress men and women behave , well i must admit I've bought more intelligent tins of paint at times.
No i don't hate the American people and my views are not distorted but i intensely dislike how the USA is run, by corrupt officials so corrupt that any sane person wonders how they got the job??? but i suppose if you tell enough lies you can fool all of the people SOME OF THE TIME. (as we in the UK are learning now).
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Somewhere, sadly, a village is missing its idiot.:roll:
 
Jack Hays said:
Somewhere, sadly, a village is missing its idiot.:roll:
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So you don't agree??

America,sadly, has overrated it's importance in world affairs..your country is a mess..divided between the ''haves'' and the ''have nots''

Billions of dollars in futile wars..yet American children suffering from malnutrition..like a third world country..

Another quote from an English forum..

''If you want an insight into right-wing politics just take a look across the pond.

Except for their attitude to immigration, their politics are further to the right than ours.

Fancy mirroring the USA? ''
 
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wolfie said:
So you don't agree??

America,sadly, has overrated it's importance in world affairs..your country is a mess..divided between the ''haves'' and the ''have nots''

Billions of dollars in futile wars..yet American children suffering from malnutrition..like a third world country..

Another quote from an English forum..

''If you want an insight into right-wing politics just take a look across the pond.

Except for their attitude to immigration, their politics are further to the right than ours.

Fancy mirroring the USA? ''
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I neither make nor find interesting claims about US importance in world affairs. Importance and unimportance show themselves without need of being announced. And governance here is usually not pretty and seems especially problematical right now. Nonetheless, just about any European country (with the single exception, perhaps, of Germany) would be happy to have US economic performance and unemployment numbers right now. The annual US visa lottery remains a highly anticipated life changing event around the world, and young people who are educated here routinely try to remain. The US is never the same country from one day to the next, and that can't be said about anyplace else.:cool:
 
Jack Hays said:
I neither make nor find interesting claims about US importance in world affairs. Importance and unimportance show themselves without need of being announced. And governance here is usually not pretty and seems especially problematical right now. Nonetheless, just about any European country (with the single exception, perhaps, of Germany) would be happy to have US economic performance and unemployment numbers right now. The annual US visa lottery remains a highly anticipated life changing event around the world, and young people who are educated here routinely try to remain. The US is never the same country from one day to the next, and that can't be said about anyplace else.:cool:
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Great post! The last sentence sums up what makes America what it is... we have the freedom to have it that way! :thumbs:

Good afternoon, Jack. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
Great post! The last sentence sums up what makes America what it is... we have the freedom to have it that way! :thumbs:

Good afternoon, Jack. :2wave:
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It is an excellent post.
 
wolfie said:
So you don't agree??

America,sadly, has overrated it's importance in world affairs..your country is a mess..divided between the ''haves'' and the ''have nots''

Billions of dollars in futile wars..yet American children suffering from malnutrition..like a third world country..

Another quote from an English forum..

''If you want an insight into right-wing politics just take a look across the pond.

Except for their attitude to immigration, their politics are further to the right than ours.

Fancy mirroring the USA? ''
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You find credibility in Brits criticizing the United States? I have two words for that: Faulkland Islands.
 
it's somewhat stunning that we don't learn from :

Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United States support for Iraq during the Iran

we pick a side, and then we have to go to war against them in 20 years or less pretty much every single time.

don't get me wrong; i think what has happened in Syria is horrible. however, the nations in the immediate vicinity need to step up and take action, not a completely different culture from across the globe. we allow these nations to abdicate their regional responsibilities.
 
Helix said:
it's somewhat stunning that we don't learn from :

Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

United States support for Iraq during the Iran

we pick a side, and then we have to go to war against them in 20 years or less pretty much every single time.

don't get me wrong; i think what has happened in Syria is horrible. however, the nations in the immediate vicinity need to step up and take action, not a completely different culture from across the globe. we allow these nations to abdicate their regional responsibilities.
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Oh, I dunno, helping the Iraqis kill Iranians wasn't all that bad of an idea. Afterall, we helped deplete Iran's combat pool--as well as Iraq's--for the next couple of generations.

Had we not fueled the fire that was the Iran-Iraq war, Desert Storm might have been way more challenging than it was. Iraq lost it's best and brightest during the war.

If we can help the rebels kill government supporters and in turn the government kills more webels, then I would say that this might have a positive outcome. If we embolden the webels to engage government forces, then more webels will die.
 
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