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Thread: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I neither make nor find interesting claims about US importance in world affairs. Importance and unimportance show themselves without need of being announced. And governance here is usually not pretty and seems especially problematical right now. Nonetheless, just about any European country (with the single exception, perhaps, of Germany) would be happy to have US economic performance and unemployment numbers right now. The annual US visa lottery remains a highly anticipated life changing event around the world, and young people who are educated here routinely try to remain. The US is never the same country from one day to the next, and that can't be said about anyplace else.
    Great post! The last sentence sums up what makes America what it is... we have the freedom to have it that way!

    Good afternoon, Jack.

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Great post! The last sentence sums up what makes America what it is... we have the freedom to have it that way!

    Good afternoon, Jack.
    It is an excellent post.

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    So you don't agree??

    America,sadly, has overrated it's importance in world affairs..your country is a mess..divided between the ''haves'' and the ''have nots''

    Billions of dollars in futile wars..yet American children suffering from malnutrition..like a third world country..

    Another quote from an English forum..

    ''If you want an insight into right-wing politics just take a look across the pond.

    Except for their attitude to immigration, their politics are further to the right than ours.

    Fancy mirroring the USA? ''
    You find credibility in Brits criticizing the United States? I have two words for that: Faulkland Islands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    it's somewhat stunning that we don't learn from :

    Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    United States support for Iraq during the Iran

    we pick a side, and then we have to go to war against them in 20 years or less pretty much every single time.

    don't get me wrong; i think what has happened in Syria is horrible. however, the nations in the immediate vicinity need to step up and take action, not a completely different culture from across the globe. we allow these nations to abdicate their regional responsibilities.

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    it's somewhat stunning that we don't learn from :

    Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    United States support for Iraq during the Iran

    we pick a side, and then we have to go to war against them in 20 years or less pretty much every single time.

    don't get me wrong; i think what has happened in Syria is horrible. however, the nations in the immediate vicinity need to step up and take action, not a completely different culture from across the globe. we allow these nations to abdicate their regional responsibilities.
    Oh, I dunno, helping the Iraqis kill Iranians wasn't all that bad of an idea. Afterall, we helped deplete Iran's combat pool--as well as Iraq's--for the next couple of generations.

    Had we not fueled the fire that was the Iran-Iraq war, Desert Storm might have been way more challenging than it was. Iraq lost it's best and brightest during the war.

    If we can help the rebels kill government supporters and in turn the government kills more webels, then I would say that this might have a positive outcome. If we embolden the webels to engage government forces, then more webels will die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Great post! The last sentence sums up what makes America what it is... we have the freedom to have it that way!

    Good afternoon, Jack.
    Sometimes a post just writes itself. That's what happened. Good afternoon, Polgara.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    It is an excellent post.
    Thank you.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, the CIA is giving them weapons, and teaching them to use those weapons, but they're not effective weapons?
    Nobody says they gave them anti-air weapons. Are you saying the CIA can't train them on weapons they already have? Next you will tell me they are giving them AKs and RPGs (about as easy to find as a Big Mac in the states).

    But. Let's address your point. The AA gun in question has a max effective range of 2 miles. That is a long way off. Would be effective against slow moving helicopters and planes.

    The United States could send an unmanned predator drone which can carry 2 hellfire missiles. Those have max effective range of...5 miles. It can also carry griffin air to surface missiles which have a maximum effective range of about 12.5 miles. I've never been good at math, but I do know that 5>2 and 12.5>2.

    Do you understand the American arsenal of aircraft? A few trailer Pulled AA guns won't be something to worry about. RPGs and HMGs (heavy machine guns...easily available to anyone who knows where to find a black market) fired at helicopters are a much bigger deal. Heck more of our aircraft have been lost due to failures in the aircraft or pilot error. That is for helicopters. In Iraq we lost more fixed wing aircraft to friendly fire than enemy fire.

    We have designed our aircraft to deal with AA fire. Stinger missiles are a scary thing. But most ground based weapons are not effective enough to deal with U.S. aircraft (fixed wing). Helicopters will obviously be in danger, but no more danger than they would be from RPGs and machine guns.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Nobody says they gave them anti-air weapons. Are you saying the CIA can't train them on weapons they already have? Next you will tell me they are giving them AKs and RPGs (about as easy to find as a Big Mac in the states).

    But. Let's address your point. The AA gun in question has a max effective range of 2 miles. That is a long way off. Would be effective against slow moving helicopters and planes.

    The United States could send an unmanned predator drone which can carry 2 hellfire missiles. Those have max effective range of...5 miles. It can also carry griffin air to surface missiles which have a maximum effective range of about 12.5 miles. I've never been good at math, but I do know that 5>2 and 12.5>2.

    Do you understand the American arsenal of aircraft? A few trailer Pulled AA guns won't be something to worry about. RPGs and HMGs (heavy machine guns...easily available to anyone who knows where to find a black market) fired at helicopters are a much bigger deal. Heck more of our aircraft have been lost due to failures in the aircraft or pilot error. That is for helicopters. In Iraq we lost more fixed wing aircraft to friendly fire than enemy fire.

    We have designed our aircraft to deal with AA fire. Stinger missiles are a scary thing. But most ground based weapons are not effective enough to deal with U.S. aircraft (fixed wing). Helicopters will obviously be in danger, but no more danger than they would be from RPGs and machine guns.
    Yup. It was destruction of the Red Army helos that enabled the mujahedeen victory in Afghanistan. The helo is the critical vehicle for a government fighting an insurgency.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Update: U.S. training Syrian rebels; White House 'stepped up assistance'

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Nobody says they gave them anti-air weapons. Are you saying the CIA can't train them on weapons they already have? Next you will tell me they are giving them AKs and RPGs (about as easy to find as a Big Mac in the states).

    But. Let's address your point. The AA gun in question has a max effective range of 2 miles. That is a long way off. Would be effective against slow moving helicopters and planes.

    The United States could send an unmanned predator drone which can carry 2 hellfire missiles. Those have max effective range of...5 miles. It can also carry griffin air to surface missiles which have a maximum effective range of about 12.5 miles. I've never been good at math, but I do know that 5>2 and 12.5>2.

    Do you understand the American arsenal of aircraft? A few trailer Pulled AA guns won't be something to worry about. RPGs and HMGs (heavy machine guns...easily available to anyone who knows where to find a black market) fired at helicopters are a much bigger deal. Heck more of our aircraft have been lost due to failures in the aircraft or pilot error. That is for helicopters. In Iraq we lost more fixed wing aircraft to friendly fire than enemy fire.

    We have designed our aircraft to deal with AA fire. Stinger missiles are a scary thing. But most ground based weapons are not effective enough to deal with U.S. aircraft (fixed wing). Helicopters will obviously be in danger, but no more danger than they would be from RPGs and machine guns.
    To paraphrase all that, then, we don't have to worry about them turning our own weapons we've given them and trained them to use on us, because we have much more effective weapons that we didn't give them.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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