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House rejects farm bill, 195-234

TheDemSocialist said:
Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.
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The last thing we won't to do is lose votes, because welfare classers had to get off their asses and get a job, pay taxes, then figure out that the Democrats really aren't the savior of the country, afterall.
 
apdst said:
The last thing we won't to do is lose votes, because welfare classers had to get off their asses and get a job, pay taxes, then figure out that the Democrats really aren't the savior of the country, afterall.
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Yea **** hungry people! :roll:
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.
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Are you saying that the middle class doesn't work? Please explain.
 
apdst said:
What about the folks who don't need it? You still aren't addressing that.
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What "folks"? Do people abuse it? Yes. People abuse any government program, its impossible to stop that within legal means. I would rather have a small minority abuse a program than cut it dry.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
What "folks"? Do people abuse it? Yes. People abuse any government program, its impossible to stop that within legal means. I would rather have a small minority abuse a program than cut it dry.
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How is it being cut dry?

I would rather we try and stop the abuse.
 
notquiteright said:
I am a beef man, not a dairy man so I had to go look up a few things. First the concentration of dairies is in the West and while the total number of dairies has shrunk the number of cows per herd has dramatically increased. the traditional milk belt of the midwest and Pa, NY has many more but much smaller dairies.

I would hazard many factors figure into why the smaller dairies are closing down. First is reliable, cheap labor. Many older/smaller dairies of the midwest/PA/NY regions relied on family to do the labor. Families are no longer stairstepped out to provide a constant source of labor. A local dairy in Elgin, OK ceased production due to a lack of kids.

Price supports for dairies are trending downward outside the farm bill. Much of our 'other than fluid milk' products rely on export. The International trade agreements curb the amount of support the government can give in exports. Many traditional importers of US dry/butter product have started domestic production, Russia and the Former Iron Curtain nations come to mind. Russia used to import large amounts of our butter, not so much anymore.

feed costs in California have far more to do with rain than ethanol. Strong multi-year droughts have hurt the production of not only corn but the #1 feed in dairies- silage. Bottomline to feed dairy cows at a level to obtain profitable returns irrigation of crops is a must. In California competition for water with urban centers and the other western states is growing fiercer. Iowa has had two bad years due to drought. Water for crop production is a nasty debate here in Texoma as we have had a few rough drought years as well. (having record heat ain't helping us much either)

Americans have been trending downward or flat in their consumption of dairy products.

So all in all I'd say ethanol MAY be a factor but damn sure not THE factor. it is incredibly demanding work,(is why I have beef cattle ;) the export programs are losing funding, the smaller dairies leaving as huge dairies increase along with the use of controversial hormones pick up the slack. Water shortages for production of silage and grain crops- don't forget soybeans are a key feed ingredient- and a downward trend in domestic consumption all figure into the dairy industry.
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Yes,water is the problem in California. I am referring in that regard to the country as a whole.
Also should have made sure to say that Ethanol is not the only problem,but it is a major contributor(especially in areas where more feed is imported). It's true that western dairies are more concentrated too. In Wisconsin herd sizes have grown quite a bit(the average Wisconsin dairy 30 years ago miled 40-50 cows,now it's probably 100. Western dairies are on average probably over 400 for an average.
Labor is also a problem. People that say agriculture does not need a guest worker program must not know anything about dairy farming.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more: House rejects farm bill, 195-234 - The Hill's Floor Action
:applaud Good! Cutting food assistance to the needy is not the way to go! Austerity does not work! I applaud this being defeated! [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Wow...An actual bi-partisan effort to shoot down a bill. I'm shocked!

As for foodstamps being cut....they need to be. Either that or streamline it and make it actually work as was originally intended for it to work. That I would support.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.
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As I tell my kids all the time....Who said life is fair?
 
Food stamps are one thing, farm support payments are another. I'd be happy if food stamps were moved to HHS and the rest of Agriculture were shut down.
 
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