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Thread: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

  1. #21
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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    OK, this is not my area (along with others). What happens if our congress critters never fix this? What happens if we treat farmers like other businesses?
    I have CDO, it's like OCD but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.

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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    OK, this is not my area (along with others). What happens if our congress critters never fix this? What happens if we treat farmers like other businesses?
    Then we'd get naturally ripened fruits and vegies instead of nitrogen ripened fruits and vegies. Mexico and South America will have to go pound sand though, and some won't like that calling America a protectionist country, but in reality all it really means is that we're done subsidizing other nations produce!


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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Then we'd get naturally ripened fruits and vegies instead of nitrogen ripened fruits and vegies. Mexico and South America will have to go pound sand though, and some won't like that calling America a protectionist country, but in reality all it really means is that we're done subsidizing other nations produce! Tim-
    As someone who is actually in the farm program let me correct a few myths. First fruits and vegetables are NOT in the subsidy program. Staple crops are.

    The milk program is outdated, back in the day milk was a key source of protein for children but today it is well known many african and asian americans lack the enzyme to digest milk. Today many substitutes are far healthier than milk/dairy products. Milk can be dropped without shattering the farming economy and there have been several large buy-outs attempting to reduce the dairies under subsidy. I can see a phase-out of the dairy program. many Americans are turning away from a dairy heavy diet because a more sedentary lifestyle increases heart health problems.

    Farm subsidies go to staple crops- corn 10B in 2005 to 2.7B in 2012, wheat 3.9B in 1999 to 1.1B in 2012, soybeans 4.6B in 2001 to 1.4B in 2012 , cotton 3B in 2005 to 510M in 2012, sugar which has the US price at twice the world price, peanuts- which was at 1B in 2002 to 51M in 2012... umm I'm sure there are a few more. grasslands and pork/chicken factories are not.

    What the farm programs do is ensure a certain number of acres are under cultivation for the basics. The USDA routinely monitors what acres are growing what staple...or not for that matter. before the various programs the rise and fall of production was a strain on the economy as speculative farming could collapse the market. I does me no good to have a bumper crop and spent the money to grow it if it is worth pennies at the elevator. outside investors could buy up large tracts of foreclosed land as their livelihood didn't rely on the farm income. The money doled out does go to huge farms that don't 'need' the money but then again I don't 'need' it either. what it does is bribe the growers into maintaining a good acreage in basic crops.

    Food Stamps needs to be moved, putting it into the USDA is a dodge. But it isn't the villain many 'conservatives' think it is. It doesn't keep people in poverty, the economy and job market does that. Less than 20% of SNAP folks are also TANF recipients. 48% have jobs. The average SNAP allotment for a family of three is $419 a month or just over a week's pay at minimum wage. So it doesn't take much to leave SNAP behind if pay and or 'good' jobs increase.

    Program reform in the farm program I get, but the republican controlled house cut SNAP about 4 times as much as the senate 4.5B.

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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    As someone who is actually in the farm program let me correct a few myths. First fruits and vegetables are NOT in the subsidy program. Staple crops are.

    The milk program is outdated, back in the day milk was a key source of protein for children but today it is well known many african and asian americans lack the enzyme to digest milk. Today many substitutes are far healthier than milk/dairy products. Milk can be dropped without shattering the farming economy and there have been several large buy-outs attempting to reduce the dairies under subsidy. I can see a phase-out of the dairy program. many Americans are turning away from a dairy heavy diet because a more sedentary lifestyle increases heart health problems.
    Actually,one of the things that has hurt the dairy industry is feed costs. Especially hard for western producers in California,which is losing dairies at a very high rate. This is largely due to ethanol. Many farmers even here are leaving the industry(California may lead in dairy production,but Wisconsin has MANY more dairy farms and infrastructure). Anyways,they are leaving milking cows for raising crops. Dairy farming when done without a parlor and help is backbreaking and also time consuming(you have to milk twice a day,larger dairies do it 3).

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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake McHugh View Post
    Actually,one of the things that has hurt the dairy industry is feed costs. Especially hard for western producers in California,which is losing dairies at a very high rate. This is largely due to ethanol. Many farmers even here are leaving the industry(California may lead in dairy production,but Wisconsin has MANY more dairy farms and infrastructure). Anyways,they are leaving milking cows for raising crops. Dairy farming when done without a parlor and help is backbreaking and also time consuming(you have to milk twice a day,larger dairies do it 3).
    I am a beef man, not a dairy man so I had to go look up a few things. First the concentration of dairies is in the West and while the total number of dairies has shrunk the number of cows per herd has dramatically increased. the traditional milk belt of the midwest and Pa, NY has many more but much smaller dairies.

    I would hazard many factors figure into why the smaller dairies are closing down. First is reliable, cheap labor. Many older/smaller dairies of the midwest/PA/NY regions relied on family to do the labor. Families are no longer stairstepped out to provide a constant source of labor. A local dairy in Elgin, OK ceased production due to a lack of kids.

    Price supports for dairies are trending downward outside the farm bill. Much of our 'other than fluid milk' products rely on export. The International trade agreements curb the amount of support the government can give in exports. Many traditional importers of US dry/butter product have started domestic production, Russia and the Former Iron Curtain nations come to mind. Russia used to import large amounts of our butter, not so much anymore.

    feed costs in California have far more to do with rain than ethanol. Strong multi-year droughts have hurt the production of not only corn but the #1 feed in dairies- silage. Bottomline to feed dairy cows at a level to obtain profitable returns irrigation of crops is a must. In California competition for water with urban centers and the other western states is growing fiercer. Iowa has had two bad years due to drought. Water for crop production is a nasty debate here in Texoma as we have had a few rough drought years as well. (having record heat ain't helping us much either)

    Americans have been trending downward or flat in their consumption of dairy products.

    So all in all I'd say ethanol MAY be a factor but damn sure not THE factor. it is incredibly demanding work,(is why I have beef cattle the export programs are losing funding, the smaller dairies leaving as huge dairies increase along with the use of controversial hormones pick up the slack. Water shortages for production of silage and grain crops- don't forget soybeans are a key feed ingredient- and a downward trend in domestic consumption all figure into the dairy industry.

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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.
    The last thing we won't to do is lose votes, because welfare classers had to get off their asses and get a job, pay taxes, then figure out that the Democrats really aren't the savior of the country, afterall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The last thing we won't to do is lose votes, because welfare classers had to get off their asses and get a job, pay taxes, then figure out that the Democrats really aren't the savior of the country, afterall.
    Yea **** hungry people!


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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yea **** hungry people!
    What about the folks who don't need it? You still aren't addressing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Id rather have that for a short amount of time while congress goes back to the drawing board rather than have a bill pass the lasts 'x' amount of time. Should not pass a farm bill that puts the rich over the middle and working class and a bill that punishes struggling Americans. That is just not fair.
    Are you saying that the middle class doesn't work? Please explain.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: House rejects farm bill, 195-234

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yea **** hungry people!
    Wow, someone might want to use this for their signature.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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