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Thread: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    On this we can agree - you said the Republican party in Arizona had 1.2 million registered members - is anyone demanding that a third party must meet that threshold? No - they're basically requiring a pulse - 5,300 out of a pool of millions. If, as you claim, so many people are dissatisfied with the duopoly, maybe this third party can hit up a few of the 1.2 million registered Republicans for some signatures - if the protest is so tangible, that should be easy too.
    How do they develop that pulse if they can't even get their foot in the door? If a party is not on the ballot, they cannot take part in the debate. If they can take part in the debate, though, they have a chance to grow their demand. A reasonable system, like the old one, allows them to get their foot in the door. They still have about 400 hurdles put up by teh main parties that they have to overcome, but at least their foot is in the door.

    The only purpose of this law is to prevent votes from being pilfered by other options (libertarians taking votes from republicans and potentially causing a win for democrats). Now, instead of actually providing a better product, the parties decide to make sure that the pilfering cannot occur. They utilize the system to avoid making improvements.

    Unfortunately, humanity is ****ing retarded, so the people who are dissatisfied with the options (most people) will still eat the dogfood they've been fed because they buy into the line of bull**** about "the lesser of two evils". Instead of demanding that the market be allowed to decide unimpeded, people simply surrender to the dichotomy.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    How do they develop that pulse if they can't even get their foot in the door? If a party is not on the ballot, they cannot take part in the debate. If they can take part in the debate, though, they have a chance to grow their demand. A reasonable system, like the old one, allows them to get their foot in the door. They still have about 400 hurdles put up by teh main parties that they have to overcome, but at least their foot is in the door.

    The only purpose of this law is to prevent votes from being pilfered by other options (libertarians taking votes from republicans and potentially causing a win for democrats). Now, instead of actually providing a better product, the parties decide to make sure that the pilfering cannot occur. They utilize the system to avoid making improvements.

    Unfortunately, humanity is ****ing retarded, so the people who are dissatisfied with the options (most people) will still eat the dogfood they've been fed because they buy into the line of bull**** about "the lesser of two evils". Instead of demanding that the market be allowed to decide unimpeded, people simply surrender to the dichotomy.
    New York State requires 50,000 signatures. I'll list others if you'd like.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #53
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As an aside, I was just reviewing ballot access requirements for various other states and Arizona's are not out of line and are lower than many.

    If true, it makes the attempt to paint Arizona as some Republican backwater attempting to steal elections partisan nonsense.
    Oh, the democrats are just as bad, if not worse. They are just as interested in stifling the competition, especially if the competition can draw from their bases.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    New York State requires 50,000 signatures. I'll list others if you'd like.
    New York's system sucks, too. Illinois is even worse. why do you think showing that the two parties do it everywhere would affect my stance? I despise both parties equally.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Oh, the democrats are just as bad, if not worse. They are just as interested in stifling the competition, especially if the competition can draw from their bases.
    Fair enough - cynical, but fair - I just see picking on Arizona to be the usual pastime of the national media - if it was truly a problem, other states would have been outed for similar or worse practices and the Supreme Court would not have upheld such requirements as constitutional.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fair enough - cynical, but fair - I just see picking on Arizona to be the usual pastime of the national media - if it was truly a problem, other states would have been outed for similar or worse practices and the Supreme Court would not have upheld such requirements as constitutional.
    I think it's a problem, but it's everywhere (Even the supreme court, which is filled with main-party people). Arizona is not the worst offender, IMO, despite this law change. My comments are more general and directed at both parties, but in the context of this thread it comes across as more toward the republicans, so I get your point.

    And you're absolutely right, I'm incredibly cynical.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Not at all. My criteria would allow the pre-existing system to exist because that system was based on the actual demand. It allowed specialized "companies" to exist for consumers who want a specialized product. The change to the system eliminates the competition from specialized "companies" so that the crappy duopoly can remain intact.

    For a third party to gain strength, there must be the opportunity to create competition. By eliminating their ability to create that competition, the ****ty duopoly remains.

    The old method used the total party membership to determine ballot access. This new system seeks to prevent smaller parties from getting their foot in teh door in order to gain more membership. That's as antithetical to free-market beliefs as it can get.
    Competition doesn't come from simply getting on a ballot but by getting people to support you. I could certainly get behind a lot of what you're saying if the cutoff was especially punitive but expecting a political party to find 5,000 supporters before they're allowed on a ballot seems pretty reasonable to me, particularly when the state's population is several million!

    The opportunity still exists for even the most fringe of fringe groups. They just need to convince a very small percentage of the population of their ideas before they're allowed on a ballot. Of course you don't need to be on a ballot to receive a vote anyway.

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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    Competition doesn't come from simply getting on a ballot but by getting people to support you. I could certainly get behind a lot of what you're saying if the cutoff was especially punitive but expecting a political party to find 5,000 supporters before they're allowed on a ballot seems pretty reasonable to me, particularly when the state's population is several million!

    The opportunity still exists for even the most fringe of fringe groups. They just need to convince a very small percentage of the population of their ideas before they're allowed on a ballot. Of course you don't need to be on a ballot to receive a vote anyway.
    My problem with this particular change is not the actual number, but the fact that it was fairly unnecessary. It's certainly much worse in other places. That being said, I just hate the duopoly, so I tend to rant against it at every opportunity.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Time for my two hour physical therapy session... more accurately referred to by me as my interaction with sadists from another solar system!

    Later....

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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Time for my two hour physical therapy session... more accurately referred to by me as my interaction with sadists from another solar system!

    Later....
    Say hi to Belgarath for me.
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