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Thread: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    "Pulled a fast one on voters". Were you born when obammycare was rushed through before anyone even read the 7,200 pages of trash?!!!!!!!!!
    What has that got to do with AZ law disallowing third-party candidates from participate in their state's primary elections? . The article in the OP is referring to elections at the state level not the federal level. Moreover, the thread isn't even about how bills become law. Let's try to stay on point, shall we.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    The disallowance of a third-party in a state's primary election for STATE officials seems ok.

    However, if the state is trying to affect federal elections, which so many RED and PURPLE ones are, they have crossed the line of the 10th amendment and entered the beginning reasoning of the cause of the civil war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What has that got to do with AZ law disallowing third-party candidates from participate in their state's primary elections? . The article in the OP is referring to elections at the state level not the federal level. Moreover, the thread isn't even about how bills become law. Let's try to stay on point, shall we.

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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As I understand it, this doesn't prohibit any voter from exercising his or her right to vote for whomever they choose - they can write in Mickey Mouse if they like.
    Yes, but you know that unless the voters make a collective effort to vote for a candidate who isn't affiliated with either of the two primary parties, even voting "None of the Above" wouldn't stand a chance. Such a candidate wouldn't stand a chance because you'd never get a grassroots campaign large enough to get behind such an unknown, not without big dollars behind him/her.

    Nice try, but we both know very few write-in candidates if any every get elected. They just don't have the financial clout behind them.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Yes, but you know that unless the voters make a collective effort to vote for a candidate who isn't affiliated with either of the two primary parties, even voting "None of the Above" wouldn't stand a chance. Such a candidate wouldn't stand a chance because you'd never get a grassroots campaign large enough to get behind such an unknown, not without big dollars behind him/her.

    Nice try, but we both know very few write-in candidates if any every get elected. They just don't have the financial clout behind them.
    What makes you think that having no ballot access requirements would suddenly make people vote for someone who's unknown? My point remains, if you can't get 5,300 signatures statewide to get your candidate's name on a ballot you shouldn't be on the ballot because you haven't a hope in hell of getting elected.

    Using your logic, we should open up the Olympics to anyone on two legs who wants to try the hundred yard dash - who knows, they may win, they just never had the chance - hell, why limit it to those with two legs - maybe some could hand-stand it pretty fast to the finish line.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Yes, but you know that unless the voters make a collective effort to vote for a candidate who isn't affiliated with either of the two primary parties, even voting "None of the Above" wouldn't stand a chance. Such a candidate wouldn't stand a chance because you'd never get a grassroots campaign large enough to get behind such an unknown, not without big dollars behind him/her.

    Nice try, but we both know very few write-in candidates if any every get elected. They just don't have the financial clout behind them.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    What makes you think that having no ballot access requirements would suddenly make people vote for someone who's unknown? My point remains, if you can't get 5,300 signatures statewide to get your candidate's name on a ballot you shouldn't be on the ballot because you haven't a hope in hell of getting elected.

    Using your logic, we should open up the Olympics to anyone on two legs who wants to try the hundred yard dash - who knows, they may win, they just never had the chance - hell, why limit it to those with two legs - maybe some could hand-stand it pretty fast to the finish line.
    And there you go misconstruing my comments. So, let me try it again...

    Unless people get to know a third-party candidate (i.e., his political views and positions on that are important to the voters), they are very unlikely to vote a third-party ticket. The largest set-back to such "get out the third-party vote" campaigns is campaign finance. And as we've seen even in the run-up to the 2012 Presidential elections (referring to the GOP primaries in particular), BIG dollars drowned out the voice(s) of their campaign rivals. I mean, even Newt Gingrich had trouble competing with the BIG money political machine that backed Mitt Romney in the GOP primaries and he's the loudest mouth in politics I know. Of course, he wasn't on a third-party ticket. So, he's not the best example to use, but Ron Paul was and look at how far he got despite having the most well received political views among all the GOP candidates?

    That's the point I was trying to make which clearly flew right over your head.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-22-13 at 12:07 PM.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    And there you go misconstruing my comments. So, let me try it again...

    Unless people get to know a third-party candidate (i.e., his political views and positions on that are important to the voters), they are very unlikely to vote a third-party ticket. The largest set-back to such "get out the third-party vote" campaigns is campaign finance. And as we've seen even in the run-up to the 2012 Presidential elections (referring to the GOP primaries in particular), BIG dollars drowned out the voice(s) of their campaign rivals. I mean, even Newt Gingrich had trouble competing with the BIG money political machine that backed Mitt Romney in the GOP primaries and he's the loudest mouth in politics I know. Of course, he wasn't on a third-party ticket. So, he's not the best example to use, but Ron Paul was and look at how far he got despite having the most well received political views among all the GOP candidates?

    That's the point I was trying to make which clearly flew right over your head.
    It didn't fly over my head at all - it ignored my previous comments where I indicated that anyone starting a third party movement should concentrate on getting that movement established long before they start fielding candidates in statewide races. Getting your name on a ballot when nobody knows who you are or what you stand for is putting the cart before the horse. Unless your intent is to be a protest nuisance, you don't build a movement with unknown candidates. You do what the Tea Party did - they established a grassroots movement, held rallies to allow their policy positions to be discussed/debated, signed up people who believed in those positions and wanted to keep in communication with Tea Party groups and then tried to coordinate with other Tea Party groups around the country. The Tea Party is/was a movement, not a political party, and they didn't go around putting unknown Tea Party candidates on ballots. They signed up in Republican primaries and looked for people who shared their views that they could support. They're at the point now where they could, easily, establish themselves as a national political party or just focus in particular states, and they'd have the grassroots support to get their candidates names on ballots without any problem getting 5,300 signatures to qualify.

    You're suggesting that no-names should be able to get their names on ballots so that they can promote their names and their positions and grow a party around them. I'm suggesting that method is "bass-ackward". People don't need to get to know a third party candidate so much as they need to get to know what the third party is all about. A dynamic individual like Ross Perot can charismatically generate a lot of press attention but even then it's one man without a party. Establish a movement first, party second, candidates last.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It didn't fly over my head at all - it ignored my previous comments where I indicated that anyone starting a third party movement should concentrate on getting that movement established long before they start fielding candidates in statewide races. Getting your name on a ballot when nobody knows who you are or what you stand for is putting the cart before the horse. Unless your intent is to be a protest nuisance, you don't build a movement with unknown candidates. You do what the Tea Party did - they established a grassroots movement, held rallies to allow their policy positions to be discussed/debated, signed up people who believed in those positions and wanted to keep in communication with Tea Party groups and then tried to coordinate with other Tea Party groups around the country. The Tea Party is/was a movement, not a political party, and they didn't go around putting unknown Tea Party candidates on ballots. They signed up in Republican primaries and looked for people who shared their views that they could support. They're at the point now where they could, easily, establish themselves as a national political party or just focus in particular states, and they'd have the grassroots support to get their candidates names on ballots without any problem getting 5,300 signatures to qualify.

    You're suggesting that no-names should be able to get their names on ballots so that they can promote their names and their positions and grow a party around them. I'm suggesting that method is "bass-ackward". People don't need to get to know a third party candidate so much as they need to get to know what the third party is all about. A dynamic individual like Ross Perot can charismatically generate a lot of press attention but even then it's one man without a party. Establish a movement first, party second, candidates last.
    Actually, you were the one who suggested that the voters could use write-in candidates when you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn
    As I understand it, this doesn't prohibit any voter from exercising his or her right to vote for whomever they choose - they can write in Mickey Mouse if they like.
    Your words, not mine. I merely explained that unless the candidate had significant financial backing his candidacy and, thus, his campaign really doesn't stand a chance of getting recognized by the masses. However, I do agree with you that without establishing a grassroots movement first and the party second, the candidate - without the financial backing - doesn't stand a chance even if said candidate is Mickey Mouse.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    All this stupid whining. You call them "third party candidates", but what is addressed here is truly more your "5th, 6th, and umpteenth party candidates."

    Every election when we vote, its a joke to have all these lower-ticket turds on the ballot. Not only Don Quixotes that I never heard of, but PARTIES that I never heard of !!

    The problem in AZ is not getting these yahoos on the ballot. Its that you keep sending McCain back. It hasn't a damn thing to do with these trifling obscure candidates.

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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    It doesn't wipe out the independents.
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    Re: Republicans pull a fast one on voters

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Two points/questions I'd pose here:

    1. Are the signature requirements any more onerous on the third parties than they are on traditional political parties?

    2. If a political party has so few followers/members that they can't meet the minimum requirements for being placed on the ballot, what purpose do they serve being on the ballot other than potentially swinging a vote to a candidate the majority of people don't want? If you can't meet the minimum requirements, how the hell do you expect to win an election?
    The Libbos are mad, because now they can't muck up the process with obscure parties that have no chance of winning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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