Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

wow man.. like i never thought a bout that.... rad dude fer sure...

Rocketman said:

I think what people are missing here is weed is like food for some people. Obesity is caused by compulsive behavior. Some people who use weed can't stop once they start, it is compulsive behavior. Some people are more prone to addiction, those are the people that need protecting.

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Right, but that doesn't answer the question of why you think weed was responsible for affecting his judgement and making him "want to seek the ultimate high". In fact, you seem to now be suggesting the opposite, and that he was a compulsive person to begin with.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "weed is like food for some people". I mean, even if that were true (which it provably isn't), what would it have to do with someone going out and using hard drugs?

And again, I'm sorry to push the point, but you stated he "started out" smoking weed. Are you sure he'd never tried alcohol? That's scientifically proven to be far more addictive and physically damaging.

Rocketman said:

I have a dead stepson that started as a recreational pot user, he died from an overdose of another drug looking for that better high. Very few people I know that start with pot say with it.

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Well, like I said, my experience is vastly different. Furthermore, the science backs my personal experience.

Absolutely, some who use Marijuana go on to experiment with other drugs. So do some alcohol users. Which, by the way, brings up a very good point, relevant to your loss. Alcohol can kill, and it isn't too difficult to overdose. It is almost impossible to overdose on marijuana.

I quit using alcohol and marijuana when I turned 18. When I turned 23, I started drinking for fun again, and going to dance clubs. 18 months later, I tried meth for the first time. Scary drug, that, but I didn't know what I was getting close to. Lucky for me, I am not addictive, but my poor friends weren't as lucky. I quit a couple years later, but they didn't. Most of them went through very tough recoveries, but they are all now doing ok, if not good. I am not currently around people who use meth, or any other extreme dependency forming drugs (except alcohol). As I said, I use alcohol to party every 2nd or 3rd weekend (I am slowing down these days a bit), but dependency to it has never seemed to take hold of me.

Alcohol was my gateway drug, if there even is any such thing. Only about half of my friends used marijuana, from that group. I think you should rethink what you are blaming, and do some actual reading of actual research. Yes, you will find good reasons not to use drugs (especially alcohol), but the majority of us accept the risk of using drugs (alcohol and other drugs), because it fun to be buzzed, and that is our prerogative, for the most part. Many people have read that alcohol kills brain cells, but they do it anyway.

Don't read the anti drug propagandists. Most of what they say may be factually true, but one needs to look at the actual study results to assess the real risks.

X Factor said:

And you support marijuana smoking in the car I suppose.

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One good effect of Marijuana that I noticed about 40 years ago, it makes the lanes wider when you're driving down the highway.

Very helpful.

Rocketman said:

its not that I want it, they already are. SO you are saying you are against all government controls?

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I have found one Ronald Reagan quote that I agree with: "Governments job is to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in trying to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan

Think about it.

Dezaad said:

Well, like I said, my experience is vastly different. Furthermore, the science backs my personal experience.

Absolutely, some who use Marijuana go on to experiment with other drugs. So do some alcohol users. Which, by the way, brings up a very good point, relevant to your loss. Alcohol can kill, and it isn't too difficult to overdose. It is almost impossible to overdose on marijuana.

I quit using alcohol and marijuana when I turned 18. When I turned 23, I started drinking for fun again, and going to dance clubs. 18 months later, I tried meth for the first time. Scary drug, that, but I didn't know what I was getting close to. Lucky for me, I am not addictive, but my poor friends weren't as lucky. I quit a couple years later, but they didn't. Most of them went through very tough recoveries, but they are all now doing ok, if not good. I am not currently around people who use meth, or any other extreme dependency forming drugs (except alcohol). As I said, I use alcohol to party every 2nd or 3rd weekend (I am slowing down these days a bit), but dependency to it has never seemed to take hold of me.

Alcohol was my gateway drug, if there even is any such thing. Only about half of my friends used marijuana, from that group. I think you should rethink what you are blaming, and do some actual reading of actual research. Yes, you will find good reasons not to use drugs (especially alcohol), but the majority of us accept the risk of using drugs (alcohol and other drugs), because it fun to be buzzed, and that is our prerogative, for the most part. Many people have read that alcohol kills brain cells, but they do it anyway.

Don't read the anti drug propagandists. Most of what they say may be factually true, but one needs to look at the actual study results to assess the real risks.

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First - sorry for Rocketman's loss. Hopefully he died quickly of an OD and not a slow progression into irreversible deterioration.


Second - I used to be a crackhead (smoked it big time for 3 years - quit it in 2002) and I personally found alcohol FAR more of a gateway drug then anything else to rock (crack).

Also, I find weed tends to appeal to a mellower kind of person. Someone that wants to chill (which is DEFINITELY not me - so I have little use for pot).

The more serious drugs (crack, meth, heroin) tend to appeal to someone who wants to escape hard and fast and completely...which was my attraction to crack (I never did meth/heroin).

SO, my guess is that Rocketman's stepson was more of a harder core personality to start with.

Having said that - perhaps he never would have gone to the harder drugs if he had not tried weed.

Imo, no one and I mean NO ONE decides to start crack/meth/heroin if they have never drank hard or done lighter drugs...unless you are monumentally stupid. Even the dumbest cluck knows these drugs are serious and not to be taken lightly. I believe everyone that started them either was tricked into it or used something else as a gateway or a combination of both. You don't just wake up one day - having never drank or used other rec drugs - and say 'I think I will try crack tonight'.

But in the end, I guess I am saying that since Rocketman knows his stepson a billion times better then we do - then he is best to judge why he made the transition to the path he took.

And if he says weed was to blame in his particular case, I assume that is so until I have evidence to the contrary.


I would like to add one more thing.

Anyone that says that they have not been negatively effected by smoking a lot of weed OR that their lives would not have been better had they not smoked a lot of weed simply - with respect - cannot know this.

It is impossible to know what someone or something would have been like in the past under different circumstances.

You can guess, believe or hope...but you cannot know.


That is not saying they are wrong - but they can never know for certain whether they were or were not.

It is simply not possible.

Did you ever smoke so much weed that you ... ahhh.

err.... ahhhh ... did I say where was I going when I came in here?

HumanBeing said:

I make money, I employ people, I pay taxes (albeit against my will), and I smoke marijuana daily. It evidently hasn't affected my motivation.

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All pot smokers, every last one of them, that believes that pot does zero damage....is wrong.

American said:

All pot smokers, every last one of them, that believes that pot does zero damage....is wrong.

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Well that's just silly, considering there are multiple pot smokers (including myself) who have commented in this thread, and not a single one of us has claimed that it does zero damage. Smoke does damage no matter what's burning, only an idiot would try to claim otherwise.

Anyone that says that they have not been negatively effected by smoking a lot of weed OR that their lives would not have been better had they not smoked a lot of weed simply - with respect - cannot know this.

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Yes, but that same idea also works in reverse. I know quite a few permanently angry people who's lives might well be better if they smoked a joint every now and then instead of just exploding at people all the time. It's just like any behavioral medication in that sense.

American said:

All pot smokers, every last one of them, that believes that pot does zero damage....is wrong.

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All drinkers, every last one of them, that believes that alcohol does zero damage....is wrong.

HumanBeing said:

I make money, I employ people, I pay taxes (albeit against my will), and I smoke marijuana daily. It evidently hasn't affected my motivation.

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Doesn't quite prove anything one way or another. One person doesn't make the rule. It's like someone saying "my grandpa smoked since he was 20 and never got lung cancer." Not saying I agree with RP's statement, but the scientist in me won't let me sit here and let you get away with an argument like that. :lol:

ReformCollege said:

Doesn't quite prove anything one way or another. One person doesn't make the rule. It's like someone saying "my grandpa smoked since he was 20 and never got lung cancer." Not saying I agree with RP's statement, but the scientist in me won't let me sit here and let you get away with an argument like that. :lol:

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But his argument wasn't scientific either, it was just a patently false blanket statement meant to generalize and insult. I simply responded by giving my own personal take on it. What's the scientist in you got do do with it?

HumanBeing said:

But his argument wasn't scientific either, it was just a patently false blanket statement meant to generalize and insult. I simply responded by giving my own personal take on it. What's the scientist in you got do do with it?

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Because I hate any sort of refutation that uses the word "I do this or I do that." Who knows, RP could be right and you might just be the exception to the rule. :lol:

A statement like "pot smokers lose motivation" doesn't mean every pot smoker in the world is lazy. But perhaps someone who isn't dealing with high amounts of stress like you and doesn't have that sort of responsibility, pot smoking might "relax" them even more to the point where they lack any sort of intrinsic motivation. Or maybe its just the culture of people smoking pot like a bunch of hippies and look down on working a normal job/normal life. Fairly or unfairly, pot will always be tied to the image of the counterculture movement and I see plenty of people in college who still adhere to those sort of ideals. Don't automatically assume that he was referring to you specifically, no one probably would even know you smoked cannabis unless you told them.

I don't like rand Paul at all but nothing he said here is wrong. Smoking pot is a dumb idea. So is drinking alcohol and huffing paint. It should be legal to do stupid **** like this but that doesnt mean it should be actively encouraged.

It is disgusting that so many libertarians are ONLY libertarians for the drug legalization. These junkies who can't separate their bad habits from their politics are the reason we aren't mainstream. Get the **** out of the libertarian party, we don't need you!

shlunka said:

Meh, my score dropped 30 points in roughly a year "albeit I was taking an online test, it was the same one as the first take", without any usage of drugs asides from alcohol use. IQ fluctuates with psychological health, if you say using marijuana is immoral, you might as well say that acquiring depression is also immoral.

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How 'bout just saying that a recreational pursuit that turns people into pliable idiots is unwise for anyone not heavily invested in the high-calorie low-nutrition snack industry?

ReformCollege said:

Because I hate any sort of refutation that uses the word "I do this or I do that." Who knows, RP could be right and you might just be the exception to the rule. :lol:

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Yes, but unlike him, at least I gave an example instead of just a broad unsubstantiated statement aimed at millions upon millions of weed smokers.

A statement like "pot smokers lose motivation" doesn't mean every pot smoker in the world is lazy. But perhaps someone who isn't dealing with high amounts of stress like you and doesn't have that sort of responsibility, pot smoking might "relax" them even more to the point where they lack any sort of intrinsic motivation. Or maybe its just the culture of people smoking pot like a bunch of hippies and look down on working a normal job/normal life. Fairly or unfairly, pot will always be tied to the image of the counterculture movement and I see plenty of people in college who still adhere to those sort of ideals. Don't automatically assume that he was referring to you specifically, no one probably would even know you smoked cannabis unless you told them.

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Well yeah, that's the point isn't it. He wasn't referring to anyone in specific, or giving any facts to back up his claim. Like I said, it was just a broad attack on people who smoke weed in general. He didn't even limit it to stoners, he just said "people who smoke weed" as if taking a puff every now and then is going to turn you into some sort of messed up drug addict.

Guy Incognito said:

I don't like rand Paul at all but nothing he said here is wrong. Smoking pot is a dumb idea. So is drinking alcohol and huffing paint. It should be legal to do stupid **** like this but that doesnt mean it should be actively encouraged.

It is disgusting that so many libertarians are ONLY libertarians for the drug legalization. These junkies who can't separate their bad habits from their politics are the reason we aren't mainstream. Get the **** out of the libertarian party, we don't need you!

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Actually, those "people" you refer to are wanting limited government the same as you. I think those libertarians that agree with pot being illegal should get the **** out of the libertarian party.

Oftencold said:

How 'bout just saying that a recreational pursuit that turns people into pliable idiots is unwise for anyone not heavily invested in the high-calorie low-nutrition snack industry?

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Sounds amazingly like the (long ago) failed argument for prohibition of alcohol.

TheNextEra said:

Actually, those "people" you refer to are wanting limited government the same as you. I think those libertarians that agree with pot being illegal should get the **** out of the libertarian party.

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I dont know anybody in the libertarian party who thinks pot should be illegal. But I know plenty self professed libertarians who like pot so much they turn on their fellow libertarians who dare to mention the fact that getting stoned is a BAD IDEA.

The libertarian party is the anti-coercion party. It is NOT the party of Cheech and Chong. Libertarian does not mean libertine.

The stoner association does us far more harm than good.

Guy Incognito said:

I dont know anybody in the libertarian party who thinks pot should be illegal. But I know plenty self professed libertarians who like pot so much they turn on their fellow libertarians who dare to mention the fact that getting stoned is a BAD IDEA.

The libertarian party is the anti-coercion party. It is NOT the party of Cheech and Chong. Libertarian does not mean libertine.

The stoner association does us far more harm than good.

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Getting stoned is no more a bad idea than getting drunk. ANYTHING can be abused and misused. Smoking pot 17 times a day is not a good idea. Smoking pot once a day is not going to make someone a complete idiot who is unproductive either just as having a glass of wine a day or a beer is going to do the same thing.

Seems many so called libertarians simply have a sterotype attitude for pot smokers that they are all Cheech and Chong smokers.

Guy Incognito said:

I don't like rand Paul at all but nothing he said here is wrong. Smoking pot is a dumb idea. So is drinking alcohol and huffing paint. It should be legal to do stupid **** like this but that doesnt mean it should be actively encouraged.

It is disgusting that so many libertarians are ONLY libertarians for the drug legalization. These junkies who can't separate their bad habits from their politics are the reason we aren't mainstream. Get the **** out of the libertarian party, we don't need you!

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This post is just one giant contradiction. People who advocate for marijuana legalization are the reason you aren't mainstream? And you'd be more mainstream if you compared smoking weed to huffing paint?

Who are you calling a junkie? I've never touched hard drugs in my life, let alone heroin.

You seem to be the one who can't separate your personal preferences from the political views they contradict (though the very notion of a "libertarian party" in modern electoral politics is a contradiction in itself).

TheNextEra said:

Getting stoned is no more a bad idea than getting drunk. ANYTHING can be abused and misused. Smoking pot 17 times a day is not a good idea. Smoking pot once a day is not going to make someone a complete idiot who is unproductive either just as having a glass of wine a day or a beer is going to do the same thing.

Seems many so called libertarians simply have a sterotype attitude for pot smokers that they are all Cheech and Chong smokers.

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Are you even reading what I write or are you just on a ****ing tirade because I dared to impugn your beloved herb? Read my first post and see how idiotic what you are saying is.

You are proving my point!

ttwtt78640 said:

Sounds amazingly like the (long ago) failed argument for prohibition of alcohol.

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The arguments didn't fail. That's why we got Prohibition, that is, the arguments succeeded. The burdens of that success were why we lost it.

HumanBeing said:

This post is just one giant contradiction. People who advocate for marijuana legalization are the reason you aren't mainstream? And you'd be more mainstream if you compared smoking weed to huffing paint?

Who are you calling a junkie? I've never touched hard drugs in my life, let alone heroin.

You seem to be the one who can't separate your personal preferences from the political views they contradict (though the very notion of a "libertarian party" in modern electoral politics is a contradiction in itself).

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No, you can't separate people who want drugs to be illegal from people who acknowledge that drugs are bad.

HumanBeing said:

Yes, but unlike him, at least I gave an example instead of just a broad unsubstantiated statement aimed at millions upon millions of weed smokers.



Well yeah, that's the point isn't it. He wasn't referring to anyone in specific, or giving any facts to back up his claim. Like I said, it was just a broad attack on people who smoke weed in general. He didn't even limit it to stoners, he just said "people who smoke weed" as if taking a puff every now and then is going to turn you into some sort of messed up drug addict.

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If you choose to see it that way, that's up to you. Just realize that you and people like you could be the exception to the rule.