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Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

And there is only one morality: God's.

Oh lawd. If you just said that from the start I wouldn't have bothered getting into a discussion based on logic and reason with you.

God said:
Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
 
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Oh lawd. If you just said that from the start and I wouldn't have bothered getting into a discussion based on logic and reason with you.

All of God's morality can be known through logic and reason. It isn't hidden.
 
You haven't demonstrated even a single way in which not using weed is "morally superior" to using it. The fact is, it depends entirely on the person. Drugs can help people see things from different perspectives than they would when they were sober. If you're responsible about it, that can be a very positive thing. If you're irresponsible about it (especially acting on those perspectives without revisiting them when sober) it will generally turn out bad.

You'd like it to be a simple thing where sober state of mind is better than drugged state of mind. It would be cool if it worked like that, it would make the whole subject far less hassle, but the basic facts show that it isn't that simple. It depends on a massive variety of factors.

Usually I'd argue that all this stuff is irrelevant anyway, because no one has the moral authority to dictate what plants I choose to consume, but given that you claim to be a libertarian I've assumed I didn't need to explain that to you. Do I?

It is a well known fact that sobriety is morally superior to intoxication. That is something that should not need to be explained.
 
All of God's morality can be known through logic and reason. It isn't hidden.
And yet in 23 pages of rambling, you have yet to say what this logic or reason actually is. You simply say "it is what it is" without going into any sort of logic or reason at all.

It is a well known fact that sobriety is morally superior to intoxication. That is something that should not need to be explained.
If it's such a well known fact, then prove it. The fact is, some people function better on drugs, some don't. Depends on the person, the drugs, the usage, the lifestyle, a whole range of factors.

Lets assume you're right and there is such a thing as a "morally superior mental state", which just so happens to be what you are when you're sober. Then what if my mental state is different from yours, and by smoking weed my mental state becomes more like your mental state. Wouldn't that make smoking weed the "morally superior" thing for me to do?
 
And yet in 23 pages of rambling, you have yet to say what this logic or reason actually is. You simply say "it is what it is" without going into any sort of logic or reason at all.


If it's such a well known fact, then prove it. The fact is, some people function better on drugs, some don't. Depends on the person, the drugs, the usage, the lifestyle, a whole range of factors.

Lets assume you're right and there is such a thing as a "morally superior mental state", which just so happens to be what you are when you're sober. Then what if my mental state is different from yours, and by smoking weed my mental state becomes more like your mental state. Wouldn't that make smoking weed the "morally superior" thing for me to do?

good luck ... but don't forget, God is on her/his side ...
 
good luck ... but don't forget, God is on her/his side ...

Unless he read Exodus, in which case he'll know that every herb baring seed is mine for meat if I want it to be ;) The bible definitely teaches moderation, but Jesus didn't get famous by turning water into non-alcoholic grape juice
 
And yet in 23 pages of rambling, you have yet to say what this logic or reason actually is. You simply say "it is what it is" without going into any sort of logic or reason at all.


If it's such a well known fact, then prove it. The fact is, some people function better on drugs, some don't. Depends on the person, the drugs, the usage, the lifestyle, a whole range of factors.

Lets assume you're right and there is such a thing as a "morally superior mental state", which just so happens to be what you are when you're sober. Then what if my mental state is different from yours, and by smoking weed my mental state becomes more like your mental state. Wouldn't that make smoking weed the "morally superior" thing for me to do?
What is morally superior is exercising the discipline not to become intoxicated. Recreational use of marijuana is an escape for the selfish and debauched. Morality requires that people subordinate their own animalistic desires to the needs of others. There can be no moral justification for throwing away your life on pot, any absurd rationalization fails to take into account the fact that the stoner who wastes his life is hurting others, indirectly, through his base and slothful lifestyle
 
Unless he read Exodus, in which case he'll know that every herb baring seed is mine for meat if I want it to be ;) The bible definitely teaches moderation, but Jesus didn't get famous by turning water into non-alcoholic grape juice

A common misunderstanding, based on ignorance of history. Alcohol in the Roman era was necessary due to the lack of clean water sources. Alcohol kills germs, so a highly watered-done wine was essential to prevent disease. It was not for recreational intoxication.
 
Morality requires that people subordinate their own animalistic desires to the needs of others.
What needs of others am I neglecting by smoking a joint or baking some cookies?
There can be no moral justification for throwing away your life on pot, any absurd rationalization fails to take into account the fact that the stoner who wastes his life is hurting others, indirectly, through his base and slothful lifestyle
You assume that everyone who uses weed "throws their life away" on it. Again, I built a successful business from nothing employing over a hundred people in a country where they actually need and appreciate the jobs, I've paid more money in tax than most people earn in a lifetime, and I'm barely 30 years old. I'm morally superior to many people who never use drugs, though drugs aren't necessarily the reason for that. It's what I do and say that defines who I am, not the drugs that occasionally help inspire those actions and words.

God is on your side, too. Even if you don't realize it.

How would you know? Maybe he's an Egyptian and his ancestors were cursed by one of your God's many genocidal plagues aimed at ethnic cleansing. Did that ever cross your mind?
 
What needs of others am I neglecting by smoking a joint or baking some cookies?

You assume that everyone who uses weed "throws their life away" on it. Again, I built a successful business from nothing employing over a hundred people in a country where they actually need and appreciate the jobs, I've paid more money in tax than most people earn in a lifetime, and I'm barely 30 years old. I'm morally superior to many people who never use drugs, though drugs aren't necessarily the reason for that. It's what I do and say that defines who I am, not the drugs that occasionally help inspire those actions and words.



How would you know? Maybe he's an Egyptian and his ancestors were cursed by one of your God's many genocidal plagues aimed at ethnic cleansing. Did that ever cross your mind?
I see that you are not tolerant of beliefs that differ from yours. But, assuming that you are asking a sincere question above, I will explain that when you are getting stoned you are putting your own selfish, animalistic desires ahead of others. You are choosing to use your time and money to destroy you intellect for pleasure, in he process wasting all of those scarce resources of debauchery when they could go to something productive.

It is sad that anybody would need this explained to them. Getting intoxicated for fun is wrong. Self discipline and sobriety is always morally superior than the debauched, animalistic junkie lifestyle.
 
I see that you are not tolerant of beliefs that differ from yours.
Eh? What part of my statement was intolerant? You're the one who's claiming everyone has to do it your way and anything else is "morally inferior". I'm tolerant of Christianity, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend the Bible is full of peace, love, and unity. It isn't. It's full of violence, hatred, and ethnic cleansing with a few good (but contradictory) one liners about being nice to people thrown in for good measure.

And you still didn't respond to the quote I gave from Exodus....

But, assuming that you are asking a sincere question above, I will explain that when you are getting stoned you are putting your own selfish, animalistic desires ahead of others. You are choosing to use your time and money to destroy you intellect for pleasure, in he process wasting all of those scarce resources of debauchery when they could go to something productive.
Again, this is simply ignoring the reality of my own example that I gave. I would have quit what I was doing from the sheer stress of it in the early stages. As it is, I smoked a few joints, calmed down, and everything worked out fine. Your entire argument rests on the idea that there is nothing productive about any mental state other than a sober one. There are mountains and mountains of scientific evidence to the contrary.

It is sad that anybody would need this explained to them. Getting intoxicated for fun is wrong. Self discipline and sobriety is always morally superior than the debauched, animalistic junkie lifestyle.
There is nothing animalistic or "junkie" (do you even know what that word means btw? I've never touched heroin or hard drugs in my life....) about my actions. I'm a responsible business owner who likes to get high sometimes because it makes me happy and occasionally provides some inspiration. That's all. The idea that it takes self discipline to be sober relies on the idea that not being sober is more appealing. Given that it clearly isn't to you, that argument goes out the window too.
 
God is on your side, too. Even if you don't realize it.

now we have a problem then ... what you say is "God's" morality is not what I say is "God's" morality ... in fact, God just contacted me and said to keep her/him out of this ... s/he said that s/he gave us the ability to reason for a reason ... s/he said to keep the supernatural out of it ... AND, told me to tell you to stop pretending that you know what s/he thinks or wants ...
 
now we have a problem then ... what you say is "God's" morality is not what I say is "God's" morality ... in fact, God just contacted me and said to keep her/him out of this ... s/he said that s/he gave us the ability to reason for a reason ... s/he said to keep the supernatural out of it ... AND, told me to tell you to stop pretending that you know what s/he thinks or wants ...

Your facetiousness is not appreciated.
 
Eh? What part of my statement was intolerant? You're the one who's claiming everyone has to do it your way and anything else is "morally inferior". I'm tolerant of Christianity, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend the Bible is full of peace, love, and unity. It isn't. It's full of violence, hatred, and ethnic cleansing with a few good (but contradictory) one liners about being nice to people thrown in for good measure.

And you still didn't respond to the quote I gave from Exodus....


Again, this is simply ignoring the reality of my own example that I gave. I would have quit what I was doing from the sheer stress of it in the early stages. As it is, I smoked a few joints, calmed down, and everything worked out fine. Your entire argument rests on the idea that there is nothing productive about any mental state other than a sober one. There are mountains and mountains of scientific evidence to the contrary.


There is nothing animalistic or "junkie" (do you even know what that word means btw? I've never touched heroin or hard drugs in my life....) about my actions. I'm a responsible business owner who likes to get high sometimes because it makes me happy and occasionally provides some inspiration. That's all. The idea that it takes self discipline to be sober relies on the idea that not being sober is more appealing. Given that it clearly isn't to you, that argument goes out the window too.
Apparently you are the one who doesnt know what a junkie is. Feel free to look it up in the dictionary. Don't like the label? Ditch the weed!
 
Apparently you are the one who doesnt know what a junkie is. Feel free to look it up in the dictionary. Don't like the label? Ditch the weed!

"A person suffering from drug addiction, most commonly used to refer to a heroin addict". There is no physical addiction with marijuana, it's psychological, and as I said, I've never touched heroin in my life. There is a massive difference between junkies and people who smoke a bit of weed. The fact you can't tell the difference between the two is just a testament to your ignorance on the subject.
 
by you at least ... I just got a like for it ... so there! Still, I hope you got the point.
There is no point. All the faithful of all the world's religions believe in essentially the same thing. It's called the golden rule for a reason. Morality is really very simple and universal. Only by being flippant and making **** up will you arrive at a fundamentally different conclusion.
 
"A person suffering from drug addiction, most commonly used to refer to a heroin addict". There is no physical addiction with marijuana, it's psychological, and as I said, I've never touched heroin in my life. There is a massive difference between junkies and people who smoke a bit of weed. The fact you can't tell the difference between the two is just a testament to your ignorance on the subject.

I guess you didn't read that defining closely enough, or else you are very thoroughly in denial. Probably denial. Very sad. You have my pity.
 
I agree with Rand Paul completely on this subject. If people want to sacrifice their sharp wits to marijuana, let them do so legally.

Nope let them do it illegally. That way not only are they stupid, they can have arrest records when they are caught and kept out of the work place.
 
And, with that statement, Rand Paul's base of midnight tokers is gone.


But, seriously, I have a real issue with what Rand Paul said, and I strongly disagree with him. Why? Oh, I dunno. Just not motivated to explain, and besides, I forgot the question.

Article is here.

I think if used in excess then yes there is loss of IQ and motivation.

This is the case of the obvious being anounced and the American public feigning outrage.
 
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