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Thread: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Your point is idiotic. Yes, i proudly pass judgment on drug users, as is my right, and the judgment is that the liberarian party does not need to be associated with you. We would let you have your substances and let it be perfectly legal, but for God's sake keep it to yourself!

    If you read my first post you would see that I already said smoking pot is equally bad as drinking alcohol.
    Well, actually, you wouldn't let them do anything becuase your already incredibly irrelevant party with no electoral hope for victory what so ever would become even smaller because you'd be driving support away from you.

    I agree that the way people present arguments or acts can drive people from a political entity. I've suggested such with Ron Paul fans for some time. That said, not every "drug user" are the types who argue for legalization in such ways that it likely does more damage to the cause than help. Hoping to purge the libertarian party from all "drug users" would likely net the party a significant loss of membership that is beneficial to the party, not just those who possibly do more harm than good.

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, actually, you wouldn't let them do anything becuase your already incredibly irrelevant party with no electoral hope for victory what so ever would become even smaller because you'd be driving support away from you.

    I agree that the way people present arguments or acts can drive people from a political entity. I've suggested such with Ron Paul fans for some time. That said, not every "drug user" are the types who argue for legalization in such ways that it likely does more damage to the cause than help. Hoping to purge the libertarian party from all "drug users" would likely net the party a significant loss of membership that is beneficial to the party, not just those who possibly do more harm than good.
    It is humorous to me that you think that. Just wait ten or fifteen years, and the Conservatives in the republican party are going to give way to the libertarian wing entirely. It is already happening on drugs and immigration. If we can't keep our pothead element under control then it might take more like twenty. But it's inevitable. Conservatives are ****in dinosaurs.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 06-20-13 at 11:11 AM.

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    At the present point in time, in the vast majority of the country, that is not true.

    I did not violate the law and put myself at legal risk to purchase my alcohol. I would not be violating the law to imbibe my alcohol.

    If Marijuana becomes legalized, then I'd agree with you. I'd even say that perhaps getting drunk would be an even worse idea than getting stoned (with both still being, in general, a bad idea). But CURRENTLY...no, I'd say all actions being equal in terms, that there is a reasoned argument that getting stoned is more of a bad idea currently than getting drunk.
    I was refering to the actual effects not the legality (I know I didn't specify). But yes, I do see your point on the legal thing.

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Why we lost prohibition is that demand was basically unchanged yet production and especially the distribution then became super profitable, untaxed and under control of organized crime. This is true of all "recreational" drugs, including marijuana. While social problems certainly exist due to recreational drug (ab)use (for any such substance, including alcohol) they pale in comparison to the problems involved with keeping them legally banned.
    That's pretty doubtful. How often do you really run into a heroin abuser in the course of a normal day in a normal occupation How often would you were there no legal restrictions on recreational heroin use?

    Or to use a more personal example, I've never in my life tried marijuana. One of the main reasons was that it was illegal.
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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Doesn't matter really. There's no grand expectation that an employer is going out of their way to research a bunch of studies to pick the perfect employee. It's a reasonable assumptions of an employer to make though that someone who wantonly violates the law for their own enjoyment is highlighting an undesirable trait that is potentially problematic.



    Absolutely. However, nice job glossing entirely over the specific actual point being made (which was not specifically about the notion of general dependability) and instead grabbing hold of a single word. Shows your absolutely desire to be honest in debate and not simply having a specific agenda that you wish to push and are thus focused on contorting everything possible to fit that agenda

    Though you do reach a whole different potential issue. Depending on the employement laws in a particular state, I believe there is significant difference between asking questions about and refusing to hire someone based on their partaking in a LEGAL activity...and doing so for an ILLEGAL one.

    Regardless of what his reasons may be, and seemingly his reasons are rather laughable, there are legitimate differences between Marijuana and Alcohol that DON'T favor the notion that it's unreasonable for a business to test for Marijuana but not Alcohol. The very fact that it IS illegal and an individual is wantonly violating the law simply due to their own desire for enjoyment IS an unquestionable factor with Marijuana that is completely missing from the equation with alcohol.
    I don't think I am glossing over anything. Dependability is the issue, not dependability issues caused by illegal Marijuana use. That is not dishonest. In fact it is far more honest than making the matter irrelevantly narrow, as you have done. I don't have time for a longer response right now.

    Would the agenda you mention as being mine be the one where I don't want to stupidly incarcerate people for stupid ideas of criminality? That would be correct. As for twisting things, making a sufficiently narrow focus is erroneous, and that is what you have done. So the person actually twisting things for an agenda? That would be you.
    Last edited by Dezaad; 06-20-13 at 12:09 PM.
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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I was refering to the actual effects not the legality (I know I didn't specify). But yes, I do see your point on the legal thing.
    Yeah, in terms of effects...I agree. Heck, I'd say in terms of effects I'd say drinkin would actually be the worse idea.

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I've never in my life tried marijuana. One of the main reasons was that it was illegal.
    Really, that is the main reason why I started.

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And Rand Paul could also be wrong. Do you accept that possibilty?
    Of course. I wasn't defending Rand Paul, but I jump like a lion on a sheep when it comes to "he is wrong because I....." arguments. Second nature really.

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    There is no evidence that Marijuana is a gateway drug.

    Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die | TIME.com
    No, there is not 'no evidence'.

    You just don't like/agree with it.

    Yale study: Marijuana may really be gateway drug

    Yale study: Marijuana may really be gateway drug - Connecticut Post

    Personally, I believe it can be a gateway drug for some people.

    How many? No idea. Probably not the majority that start meth/crack/heroin.

    For me it was booze/arrogance/being semi-tricked into it.

    Note: again, I quit in '02.

    So, the notion that Marijuana acts to entice to other drug use is false. And I just don't buy that you can say what you would have done, or anyone else would have done. I am inclined to say that people who like the idea of altering their consciousness will choose to do so, and will start with SOMETHING.

    We could say that the thrill of skiing leads people who are Adrenalin junkies to learn to skydive, where many are killed. Nobody just jumps out of a plane unless they are bat**** crazy. Etc.

    Many of the most fun things in life are also deadly. So, I will just say that if our goal is to save lives, legalization will make drug use safer. Taxing illegal drugs enough to pay for rehabs, which are not available right now for people who need them, would make addiction less deadly. Instead of channelling profits into drug kingpins coffers, we could channel them into recovery programs for addicts. We can also much more easily regulate hard drugs if they are legal. We can then squeeze them into vastly reduced use, like we have done with cigarettes.

    So, the saving of lives through prohibition argument is ass backwards, in my book.
    I strongly agree with legalizing drugs though.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-20-13 at 04:13 PM.

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    Re: Rand Paul: Marijuana users lose IQ points and lack motivation

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Right, but that doesn't answer the question of why you think weed was responsible for affecting his judgement and making him "want to seek the ultimate high". In fact, you seem to now be suggesting the opposite, and that he was a compulsive person to begin with.

    I'm also not sure what you mean by "weed is like food for some people". I mean, even if that were true (which it provably isn't), what would it have to do with someone going out and using hard drugs?

    And again, I'm sorry to push the point, but you stated he "started out" smoking weed. Are you sure he'd never tried alcohol? That's scientifically proven to be far more addictive and physically damaging.
    positive, weed was his first high, there is a reason it is illegal an should stay that way

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