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Herman Cain says U.S. headed ‘towards socialism and towards communism’

DVSentinel said:
Name a single company that exists without customers?
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No customer owns anything in the company.

I need a car so I guess I can just go down to any company jump in my car and drive off huh?
 
blaxshep said:
No customer owns anything in the company.

I need a car so I guess I can just go down to any company jump in my car and drive off huh?
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The customer controls and owns the whole process.

No, you can't, you have to buy it. Otherwise you are not paying the workers who built it. They are workers, not your slaves.

If a company builds cars, but no customer buys them, then that company will cease to exist. Profit is often the motivation of a company, but satisfying the desires of the customer is the controlling factor behind whether profit is made, or even how much profit is made.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
:lamo
1.)We are not a classless society nor even going anyhwhere near that all one needs to look at is the vast inequalities of wealth
2.)We are not stateless society becasue we have a state and its not "dwindling away"
3.)Do i really need to go into any more dpeth?
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:2wave:
1.)He did not say we ARE a socialist country, he said we are heading for it.
2.)The policy of the US govt is to redistribute wealth to achieve social equality
3.)The policy of the US is to centrally control the economy including direct ownership and monopoly of several industries
4.)Do I really need to make it any more sipmle?
 
blaxshep said:
I would say a more accurate term would be public investment in not so much ownership of.
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Except in the case of the things I mentioned, its ownership. Govt OWNs power generating stations. It OWNs a car company. It OWNs schools, airports, radio stations, ports, roads, banks...I can go on. An investment would be taking money from people and then giving it to private citizens to produce goods. Govts also do this. But they also own production facilities and pay people to work in them.
 
DVSentinel said:
The management/owners/etc only own it when they have customers willing to buy their products. No customers, no company to own, no company to work for.

So, I'm taking a rest break from working on the lawn mower atm, it's hot outside, and I get a bit of entertainment from this.
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Define ownership.
 
jonny5 said:
Define ownership.
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I don't remember the exact quote, but
"If you have the power to destroy it, you control it"
If you control it, you own it.

Whether your names on the title/deed/etc. The customers have the power to destroy any company, therefore they control it and therefore they own it.
 
jonny5 said:
:2wave:
1.)He did not say we ARE a socialist country, he said we are heading for it.
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How so?
Because a centrist democrat is president? Because he bailed out big corporations, left insurance to private providers, passed tax cuts, and is now putting medicare and mediciaid and other social wefare institutions up on the chopping block? That doesnt sount like heading for socialism at all.

2.)The policy of the US govt is to redistribute wealth to achieve social equality
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No. Its not about equality. Its about what all modern civilized countries have to do no matter left right or center. No matter what there is always going to be a form of "redistribution" of wealth.

3.)The policy of the US is to centrally control the economy including direct ownership and monopoly of several industries
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:doh
They leave that up to the private corporations. Corporatism my friend is what we are heading for a corporatist oligachy.

4.)Do I really need to make it any more sipmle?
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:lol: I see what you did there.
 
DVSentinel said:
The management/owners/etc only own it when they have customers willing to buy their products. No customers, no company to own, no company to work for.
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What you just described is a market, not ownership...
 
I do find it a little amazing that republicans dislike blacks and minorities, but when they chose to listen to one they find the dumbest most crazy token possible to follow. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if the pizza guy is a black idiot, but I am not going to listen to his political rants. Obama maybe a corrupt politician (yes i know that was redundant) but at least he is articulate and intelligent. I would probably be more likely to go to a herman cain backyard barbecue than any uptight Obama party, but that is just a party and not running the world. What is it with the right and rallying around the ideas of idiots from specific minorities? They are aware you are supposed to hold up the stereotypical minority idiot for ridicule and pretend the entire race is like that and not listen to them?

But I guess in a party that has gone from alex P keaton to Larry the cable guy I should not be surprised they have gone from carlton banks to tyler perry. The dems may be corrupt but at least they are not parading the LCD of the races around as some sort of intelligent speakers. Oh, and before anyone goes there, they do this with white people and hispanics too.
 
DVSentinel said:
I don't remember the exact quote, but
"If you have the power to destroy it, you control it"
If you control it, you own it.

Whether your names on the title/deed/etc. The customers have the power to destroy any company, therefore they control it and therefore they own it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you just rebutted your own quote.
 
DVSentinel said:
I don't remember the exact quote, but
"If you have the power to destroy it, you control it"
If you control it, you own it.

Whether your names on the title/deed/etc. The customers have the power to destroy any company, therefore they control it and therefore they own it.
Click to expand...

What about my internet business which could survive forever without customers?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
How so?
Because a centrist democrat is president? Because he bailed out big corporations, left insurance to private providers, passed tax cuts, and is now putting medicare and mediciaid and other social wefare institutions up on the chopping block? That doesnt sount like heading for socialism at all.


No. Its not about equality. Its about what all modern civilized countries have to do no matter left right or center. No matter what there is always going to be a form of "redistribution" of wealth.


:doh
They leave that up to the private corporations. Corporatism my friend is what we are heading for a corporatist oligachy.


:lol: I see what you did there.
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:shock: False on the face of it. :eek: Corporations do not wield political power, and can not under the current system of law. :naughty Power is wielded by elected representative, and the people can directly influence them.
 
jonny5 said:
:shock: False on the face of it. :eek: Corporations do not wield political power, and can not under the current system of law. :naughty Power is wielded by elected representative, and the people can directly influence them.
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:roll:
Really we wanna play that game? Corporations dont wield political power? Ever heard of a lobbyist? Super PAC? Dont be so naive.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Herman Cain says U.S. headed ‘towards socialism and towards communism’

Supposedly somehow in fantasy land amongst the right we are turning into a "socialist" country, then apparently we are going to become a stateless, classless society... This people are ****ing insane. :screwy[/FONT][/COLOR]
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Darwin's theory at work. The Republican nomination process actually worked in 2012. It, at least in this case, acted well to disqualify the (intellectually) weak from its field of candidates. Though the last man standing was still a light-weight; he clearly was the best of the (bad) lot.
 
DVSentinel said:
We are turning socialistic, there for, socialist. Communist however, I don't think he was using Marx's definition of Communism, but was referring to the totalitarian socialist states like the Soviet Union, China, NK, Cuba, etc. So, he may be inaccurate by using the term "communism", however he is totally accurate on socialism and totalitarian socialism. Not to see that is "****ing insane".
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"turning socialistic" lol
 
jonny5 said:
:shock: False on the face of it. :eek: Corporations do not wield political power, and can not under the current system of law. :naughty Power is wielded by elected representative, and the people can directly influence them.
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money is considered speech and that's one thing corporations arent short on so they can certainly influence politicians

to say otherwise is naive
 
jonny5 said:
:shock: False on the face of it. :eek: Corporations do not wield political power, and can not under the current system of law. :naughty Power is wielded by elected representative, and the people can directly influence them.
Click to expand...

Wow, I think you have your head in text books; understand the theory but have no clue how things actually work. Either that or you just disingenuous.

Between Citizens United, unbridled lobbyists, gerrymandering, the solid red and blue states, and primary systems which favor extremist candidates the idea the individual citizens "yielding" power is pretty much a myth. I dare say our current system is one of the least democratic in the first world.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
:roll:
Really we wanna play that game? Corporations dont wield political power? Ever heard of a lobbyist? Super PAC? Dont be so naive.
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They can attempt to influence govt same as anyone else. The don't have force, whereas democratically elected reps do.
 
instagramsci said:
money is considered speech and that's one thing corporations arent short on so they can certainly influence politicians

to say otherwise is naive
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They still have to convince a voter to vote. They cant force them.
 
upsideguy said:
Wow, I think you have your head in text books; understand the theory but have no clue how things actually work. Either that or you just disingenuous.

Between Citizens United, unbridled lobbyists, gerrymandering, the solid red and blue states, and primary systems which favor extremist candidates the idea the individual citizens "yielding" power is pretty much a myth. I dare say our current system is one of the least democratic in the first world.
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All of which can be changed by voters at any point. The system we have is the one chosen by voters.
 
jonny5 said:
All of which can be changed by voters at any point. The system we have is the one chosen by voters.
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Theoretically true, but not exactly true. The system is substantially stacked against the voter for the reasons previously outlined. I believe you are still operating from a rather naive view of how the American political works.
 
what wind bags like Caine do is feed off of fear, that our country has in a few ways become less capitalistic doesn't mean we are becoming socialists or commies.

There is good and bad in all systems, the trick is to use the common good of them all. The political fight and fearmongering dwells in the minds of highly partisan folks on all sides.

If you think the corporation's influence ends on election day you have not heard of K-Street.

If you think a classless society is superior to one that rewards merit then you don't understand a major motivator of mankind, not the need to feel superior to his fellow man but to gain more comfort for himself.

If you think society is devil take the hindmost and he who dies with the most toys wins then you don't understand why Rome fell.

Compromise and an alloy of the systems is far stronger, just as alloys in metal have superior properties.

But that doesn't fit on a Bumper Sticker.... :doh
 
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