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Thread: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I guess the jury disagrees with you. Juries actually make law.
    Nullification gives juries the ability to not apply a law that they disagree with. They cannot remove a law from the books nor can they propose new laws
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Vaya con Dios
    Vaya con Dios, amigo.

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You have got to be kidding me. Thanks for posting up something we could all get our teeth into about what should be a slam-dunk "WTF?"



    This is a disgusting finding. The only thing I can think of is that, since he was tried for murder, they found that he wasn't directly responsible for her death and were not allowed to find him guilty of a lesser charge. Other than that? Grave injustice done here.

    We cannot -- must not -- allow people to use their guns in this way and then let them walk away. If someone isn't in reasonable fear for their life? (And I'm willing to stretch this quite a bit.) They shouldn't be able to shoot someone.
    Just a shot in the dark, but her actions were characterized as theft? So he shot her like he would a normal burglar. Shooting her was wrong, but I don't know what would've been the right course of action if I were in his shoes. Moral of the story: don't use escorts.

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Who lives in Texas, me or you? I was born in Texas and have both taken the CCL course and carry a pistol regularly. I suggest you worry about the repressive gun laws you deal with in New York and leave us alone. We don't need or want your input.
    So what? I have a New York State pistol permit. BFD. I can read a statute as well as the next guy. I suggest you read it so you understand the laws of the state you live in.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Just a shot in the dark, but her actions were characterized as theft? So he shot her like he would a normal burglar. Shooting her was wrong, but I don't know what would've been the right course of action if I were in his shoes. Moral of the story: don't use escorts.
    They would have to have been for this guy to get away with what he did. Even so, that wouldn't fly in most states. Texas is one of a very small number of places in the US where you can use deadly force in defense of property.

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    So what? I have a New York State pistol permit. BFD. I can read a statute as well as the next guy. I suggest you read it so you understand the laws of the state you live in.
    Texas has a self-defense law based on the castle doctrine. The law has a “stand your ground” clause, meaning the person using physical or deadly force against an attacker does not have a duty to retreat. Deadly force is permissible under the law when a person is attempting to defend himself from deadly force of an attacker in his home, vehicle or place of employment, or against attackers who are committing crimes of kidnapping, murder, sexual assault or robbery.

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Texas has a self-defense law based on the castle doctrine. The law has a “stand your ground” clause, meaning the person using physical or deadly force against an attacker does not have a duty to retreat. Deadly force is permissible under the law when a person is attempting to defend himself from deadly force of an attacker in his home, vehicle or place of employment, or against attackers who are committing crimes of kidnapping, murder, sexual assault or robbery.
    First of all robbery is a violent crime. Robbery - even in Texas - requires actually causing bodily harm or using the threat of force. Neither appears to be case here since the media reported it as a "theft" and quoted a statute that deals with "theft".

    That means the castle doctrine and stand your ground do not apply but Texas 9.42 (copied from Bloomberg law) does -

    9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
    justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    You talk about not understanding all the facts, then you assume to know them and accuse this man of murder.
    I made no such claim, only that he shot her and what the result was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    And you don't know his situation either. It looks like she attempted to rob the wrong man.
    Well, as it was pointed out, since you can't sell sex on Craigslist, only your "time", it would seem to muddle your theory that he was "robbed", he got what he paid for (allegedly). So again, she allegedly robbed him (though it would appear as though she provided the services advertised) and he allegedly shot her....The reason I feel qualified in the latter, is that in his defense, I don't believe he denied shooting her in court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Did you just make this up? I guess it could be, or maybe she was in the process of beaming up to the mother ship and this was his only sure way to get his money back. I admit it's far-fetched but anythings possible, right?
    My example is possible within the boundaries of experiences we've all shared, since none of us has ever seen evidence of "mother ships" or "beaming" (in reality), I'd say that my hypotheticals are within the bounds of everyday experience, where your hypotheticals are, ironically, only ever seen in fiction.

    Anything may be possible, but everything that is possible does not have an equal probability of occurring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Simple solution. Stay off of other's property unless invited. In this case, what flew out the door was this woman's right to steal his money.
    Again, what is your evidence that she robbed him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    More fiction I see, chapter 2. Chapter 3.
    So you result to deflection because you know these aren't easy questions to answer. Theoretical or not, if you disagree, your job is to prove that the hypotheticals are absurd, otherwise, just keep deflecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    You assume a lot, don't you? Why assume this man or any other gun owner doesn't have any training, just because you don't.
    Where did I say that he didn't have any training. I said that the average gun owner isn't expected to have training. Reading is fundamental....

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Evidently, she didn't value her freedom enough to understand that robbing people can have bad consequences.
    So let me get this straight, he intended (I allege) to break the law by soliciting sex online. Since they didn't agree to it in writing (due to laws that prevent it), they had to work in "code". When she didn't deliver on their unspoken or verbal contract, she exploited the only written "contract" they had (that she agreed to spend "time" with him via a Craigslist ad). This pissed him off (I allege) and he shot her in the neck.

    I would say they are both guilty of something to varying degrees, but neither deserves to be bedridden for life for their (alleged) crimes.
    Last edited by csbrown28; 06-07-13 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    If you do something, anything with malice...Be it hit with a bat, throw a phone, cause someone to trip and bump their head, here are some questions.....

    1) If the person you assaulted dies in the future, how far in the future do we have to go before you're not responsible for the death....

    2) If they die as a result of defective care, that they are under because of what you did, are you responsible for the death?
    It's the old question, man jumps off a 30 story building, on his way down someone shoots him. Is his death a suicide or a murder.

  10. #50
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    Re: Texas Says It's OK to Shoot an Escort If She Won't Have Sex With You

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    She allegedly robbed him.....

    The problem with letting people decide the guilt or innocence of another person without an understanding of all the facts ultimately will lead to mistakes. Laws like those in TX are guaranteed, on a long enough timeline, to lead to these types of cases.

    We can judge her character as a prostitute and decide her guilt.....But the reality is we really don't know her situation. While very unlikely, maybe her pimp told her to take the guys money without providing services or he'd hurt or kill her. I admit it's far fetched, but not impossible in this situation or another.

    Texas lets you be judge and jury, they let you decide if you have the right to take another life in the defense of your property. So the idea that you are innocent until proven guilty fly's out the door.

    I could see something like this being abused. Lets say I sold something to someone I didn't like and they came over to my house to pick it up....Upon driving away with it I shoot him and claim he stole it. Well, if he is dead, he can't defend himself....Now what? Again, unlikely? Perhaps, but not beyond belief.

    What if she threw the money on the floor before he left and he didn't see it? Do you think that if he lost sight of her for 3 seconds he would assume that? Do you think he announced his intention to attempt to kill her if she didn't give him the money back? (maybe many not).

    What about untrained people wielding guns in the defense of their property. What about stray bullets? Are we ok accepting that risk? Is it realistic in a culture that advocates the possession of a weapon with absolutely no training required that they should know, not only how to use it, but all the potential results of their actions under duress?

    I think the thing that appalls the average person is that this 23 year old woman was, as the result of her stealing 1-3 days pay, was sentenced to life trapped inside her body for 50 more years (she was paralyzed) assuming she would have lived an average life. Was her freedom or her life only worth $150?

    I would have mailed the shooter his $150 if it meant saving her life....Even if she was a prostitute.
    Oh my god!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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