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IRS agents say orders came from Washington

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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IRS agents are singing like a canary to Darrell Issa and his congressional investigators, and it’s clear the initial story was absurd and impossible. CBS News reports:

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., citing the testimony of IRS employees who spoke to his committee behind closed doors, argued Sunday that the tax agency’s targeting of conservative groups was not the result of a few “rogue agents” in the Cincinnati field office, as the IRS and the Obama administration have insisted, but the product of a direct order from IRS headquarters in Washington.

“As late as last week, the administration’s still trying to say there’s a few rogue agents in Cincinnati,” Issa said on CNN. “When in fact the indication is they were directly being ordered from Washington.”

“It’s impossible,” the employee explained. “As an agent we are controlled by many, many people. We have to submit many, many reports. So the chance of two agents being rogue and doing things like that could never happen.”

The interrogator followed up, asking, “With respect to the particular scrutiny that was given to Tea Party applications, those directions emanated from Washington, is that right?”

“I believe so,” replied the IRS employee.

IRS agents tell Issa their marching orders came from Washington

Can't the Obama administration get any of their scandal "stories" right the first time?
 
I thought the whole rogue office thing was fishy to start with.
 
It's physics. When enough **** rolls down hill it will inevitably bounce.
 
What does "coming from Washington" even mean? That's where the whole stupid government is. They need to be a bit more specific than "generic washington".

Look at the size of our bureaucracy. Take the original DHS created by bush with 100,000 bureaucrats that carry guns (a RP quote). Nobody knows who is in charge of what anymore.
 
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What does "coming from Washington" even men? That's where the whole stupid government is. They need to be a bit more specific than "generic washington".

Look at the size of our bureaucracy. Take the original DHS created by bush with 100,000 bureaucrats that carry guns (a RP quote). Nobody knows who is in charge of what anymore.

If the government is that out of control, it needs to be drawn down. Or, someone needs to go to prison.
 
Why was the IRS formed initially and how long has it been spying? Did it just get caught recently having been spying for 50 years? It's good to know in this country all we have to do is ask our government leaders and instantly we are told the truth, the whole thruth and not but the truth.

Knowing the IRS spies on us it tends to reassert my convition we all need to own weapons with 30 round clips!
 
Agreed. But who? And how? Will they arrest themselves?

If cop beats you up, who do you call? The cops? See the problem?

If the government is that out of control, it needs to be drawn down. Or, someone needs to go to prison.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061882766 said:
IRS agents tell Issa their marching orders came from Washington

Can't the Obama administration get any of their scandal "stories" right the first time?

For the record, the "proof" is that one low level IRS employee said that their supervisor told them that they believed that the instructions to look out for conservative groups came from Washington. Compelling.

It's impossible to look at this situation honestly without first acknowledging that Conservative 501c groups accounted for 85% spending and three fourths of approved groups, but only accounted for two thirds of the groups which were investigated. Yes the criteria was biased, but the abuse was even more biased. Moreover, using group names worked. The false positive rate for the 94 groups with "Tea Party", "Patriot", and "912" was 18%. The false positive rate for the rest of the groups investigated was 36%, that's double.

Yes it looks terrible, but the IRS appears to have only been doing it's job.
 
For the record, the "proof" is that one low level IRS employee said that their supervisor told them that they believed that the instructions to look out for conservative groups came from Washington. Compelling.

It's impossible to look at this situation honestly without first acknowledging that Conservative 501c groups accounted for 85% spending and three fourths of approved groups, but only accounted for two thirds of the groups which were investigated. Yes the criteria was biased, but the abuse was even more biased. Moreover, using group names worked. The false positive rate for the 94 groups with "Tea Party", "Patriot", and "912" was 18%. The false positive rate for the rest of the groups investigated was 36%, that's double.

Yes it looks terrible, but the IRS appears to have only been doing it's job.

What isn't compelling is believing lower level IRS employees could manage to pull off targeting certain groups to harass on their own. Think this would be the first time a president has used the IRS to punish political foes?

Use of the IRS for political targeting has been alleged as far back as the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration.

“My father,” Elliott Roosevelt observed of his famous parent, “may have been the originator of the concept of employing the IRS as a weapon of political retribution.”

JFK joined in the fun too:

The most famous Kennedy administration project allegedly deploying tax-related targeting was called the "Ideological Organizations Project". This was a project which allegedly investigated, intimidated, and challenged the tax-exempt status of right-wing foundations.[2]

And probably the most notable:

In 1974, a Bill of Impeachment against President Richard Nixon was approved by the House Judiciary Committee that included charges that his administration used the IRS in a discriminatory manner:

RESOLVED, That Richard M. Nixon, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanours...
Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States...

He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to... cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.

List of Internal Revenue Service political profiling controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And where did that get Nixon?
 
"House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., citing the testimony of IRS employees who spoke to his committee behind closed doors, argued Sunday that the tax agency’s targeting of conservative groups was not the result of a few “rogue agents” in the Cincinnati field office, as the IRS and the Obama administration have insisted, but the product of a direct order from IRS headquarters in Washington."

Man, those closed doors testimonies that no one can authenticate the veracity of or if they even happened are sure convenient. Not that I'm asserting that these specific ones are false, just that the whole idea of secret investigations and non-public testimony is messed up. It's ripe for abuse.
 
Maybe the reason orders came from Washington is because the IRS has its headquarters in Washington?

Low level employees in Washington?

IRS agents singled out dozens of organizations for additional reviews because they included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their exemption applications, said Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS division that oversees tax-exempt groups. In some cases, groups were asked for lists of donors, which violates IRS policy in most cases, she said.

The agency — led at the time by a Bush administration appointee — blamed low-level employees, saying no high-level officials were aware.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061882766 said:
IRS agents tell Issa their marching orders came from Washington

Can't the Obama administration get any of their scandal "stories" right the first time?

I think it was a smart move by the gov't to try to get these alleged non profits under control right from step one with the new Citizens United decision. The potential for skullduggery was vast and legal enforcement not only prudent, but politically useful to the incumbent administration. What's the surprise here?
 
I think it was a smart move by the gov't to try to get these alleged non profits under control right from step one with the new Citizens United decision. The potential for skullduggery was vast and legal enforcement not only prudent, but politically useful to the incumbent administration. What's the surprise here?
I agree. Everybody does it. Why, just yesterday I issued myself a BOLO for roast beef. And it worked. Found some.
 
I think it was a smart move by the gov't to try to get these alleged non profits under control right from step one with the new Citizens United decision. The potential for skullduggery was vast and legal enforcement not only prudent, but politically useful to the incumbent administration. What's the surprise here?

You mean its smart for the government to get conservative non-profits under control as punishment for being a political foe.

You're right about one thing, it was useful to the incumbent administration, however, leaking donor information appears to be a felony. Oops...

He said that on March 30, 2012, NOM became aware that the Human Rights Campaign, the pro-gay rights group, obtained confidential information of its donors and posted the information without redacting the names. That information later appeared on websites like the Huffington Post.

NOM discovered another document with redactions that had been posted. A computer analysis, after removing the document's redaction layer, discovered the document had "originated from within the IRS itself." He said the group found the header of each page read: “THIS IS A COPY OF A LIVE RETURN FROM SMIPS. OFFICIAL USE ONLY." And that was proof that the leak originated from the IRS.

He said this "unauthorized public disclosure" was "a violation of federal law" and a "serious felony."

Eastman said the group asked the Department of Justice and the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TITGA) to investigate. He noted that a year after making the request, the group still has not received any information.
Testimony: IRS Leaked Info About Donors to Liberal Groups
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061886468 said:
You mean its smart for the government to get conservative non-profits under control as punishment for being a political foe.

You're right about one thing, it was useful to the incumbent administration, however, leaking donor information appears to be a felony. Oops...


Testimony: IRS Leaked Info About Donors to Liberal Groups


No, it's good judgment to get slippery big money non profits under the microscope just to keep them honest. Even liberal or progressive slippery big money although there doesn't seem to be a lot of that goin' 'round.
 
No, it's good judgment to get slippery big money non profits under the microscope just to keep them honest. Even liberal or progressive slippery big money although there doesn't seem to be a lot of that goin' 'round.

Apparently some people on this board are willingly ignorant of George Soros and his many Liberal front groups lol
 
Why was the IRS formed initially and how long has it been spying? Did it just get caught recently having been spying for 50 years? It's good to know in this country all we have to do is ask our government leaders and instantly we are told the truth, the whole thruth and not but the truth.

Knowing the IRS spies on us it tends to reassert my convition we all need to own weapons with 30 round clips!

An M134 in every home.
 
Man, those closed doors testimonies that no one can authenticate the veracity of or if they even happened are sure convenient. Not that I'm asserting that these specific ones are false, just that the whole idea of secret investigations and non-public testimony is messed up. It's ripe for abuse.

Ummm...you understand that the "closed door" testimony consist of the entire House commitee conducting the investigation, right? Its not just Issa in there with witness but the entire committee. Closed door testimonies are generally at the request of the witness, not the committee.
 
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