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Thread: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

  1. #71
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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    The free market does not work in healthcare. How much more evidence do you need??
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are placing 100% of the blame in an area responsible for maybe 20% of the problem, and using that to centralize, and take over the industry against the will of the people....That to me is absurd....I wish for one moment you'd give up your hatred against capitalism and look at this with objective eyes.
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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    The free market does not work in healthcare. How much more evidence do you need??
    Sure it does....Look at Lasik surgery....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That's true...it's very idiotic to try and change a medical care system that leaves 10's of millions uninsured yet still equals a much higher % of GDP compared to other countries with universal care. I mean...only idiotic people ask why we pay 90 bucks for prescription medicine that cost 40 in England or France.
    Only an idiot destroys a great health care system in order to fix a $90 prescription.

    By the way, that too is mostly a myth, because you can pick and choose some medications that are cheaper in other countries and claim an urgent need to take a torch to the medical system, but you ignore so may other medications that are cheaper in the US (and big evil Walmart et al are making most common drugs cheap even without insurance). But then that is the liberal way, making the exception the rule and legislating to it, plowing under everything that worked in the process.

    Obamacare is effectively taking a torch to your house to fix a stuck door.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    I'm late to this thread, so has anybody said, "Told ya so" yet?

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I'm late to this thread, so has anybody said, "Told ya so" yet?
    LOL...Not in so many words, but yes....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptinSarcastic View Post
    Sometimes it is not a matter of planning. I worked for a large corporation for two decades and then went into business for myself and have to deal with the insurance market in my new circumstances. Should I have stayed with the big company just for insurance? Many people do exactly that, even though the have the knowledge, skill, and resources to be entrepreneurs. How do you think this effects our overall economy?
    You've made a ridiculous statement here, you realize, right? The added cost to employers and entrepreneurs of Obamacare is what has everyone worried.


    Single payer is the only real solution because choice is taken out of the equation. If you are American, you will be insured. If you make money, you will pay for it. If you think that removing choice is wrong, I will point out that the choice of whether to pay for the care of others was taken away decades ago under Ronald Reagan with the passage of the Emergency Medical Treatment And Active Labor Act that was basically an unfunded mandate for universal healthcare. America refuses to allow the sick to go without treatment, whether they can or intend to pay for that treatment. Once society made THAT decision, healthcare essentially became a defacto right. If you disagree with this, then you should lobby for the repeal of EMTALA and let people that can pay go without care, but I'll tell you right now, there is no almost support for that.

    So, to sum up, health care is a "defacto right" and you want to take all choice in this "right" out of the hands of the individual and hand it to the state... essentially taking the rights away in the process.


    In other words, you haven't thought the above paragraph out too thoroughly.


    It is stupid to say that ALL will get care but we are not going to build a system for all to get care, we'll just say treat them and bury the costs in insurance costs, medical costs, and taxes.

    Which of course is exactly what we do now. So the idiotic fix is no different.


    We spend an estimated $50 billion a year on EMTALA costs
    The entire US health care system is 16% of the economy. So TOTAL EMPTALA, by your own argument is roughly 2% of the entire US annual medical expense.... so your argument is to abandon the entire system to save some fraction of 2%.


    why not just build it into the system and have health insurance for all. Extend Medicare to age 0, and watch the individual costs go down as we stop socializing the highest risk Americans (those over 65) and privatizing the lowest risk Americans.

    Because it's not that easy?


    My heart doesn't bleed, but my head is exploding at the stupidity.

    I'm going to not make the obvious joke here, but thanks for the set up.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are placing 100% of the blame in an area responsible for maybe 20% of the problem, and using that to centralize, and take over the industry against the will of the people....That to me is absurd....I wish for one moment you'd give up your hatred against capitalism and look at this with objective eyes.
    No no no.. I placing 80% of the blame on the industry itself and 20% on the politicians because they are nothing but the lackey's of the industry. That gives 100%. Do I blame Obama? Of course, he was not tough enough with the industry.. but I also blame the GOP and Dems for bending over and taking it up the.. every year for decades and allowing this system to go on and on. I also blame the GOP for first suggesting single payer system and when Obama took it up, then doing a 180 and being against it.. pathetic.

    Why are there no investigations in Congress to explain why a specific medical procedure in the New York/New Jersey area costs from 7k to 99k? Instead they are wasting their time on Bengahzi and IRS and what not.. what do you think impacts the average American more?

    And I have no problem with capitalism .. in fact I am very much for it, but I also understand that capitalism is flawed when not kept under scrutiny because it is human nature to exploit others for their own benefit. Flawed capitalism is why we have socialism and unions. They are the reaction to centuries of abuse while capitalism grew up.

    In this case the whole industry is built up in a cartel like system, where the insurance companies and the healthcare system not only work together but set the rules to benefit themselves at the cost of the consumer. Have you ever wondered why there are so few insurance companies considering the amount of money in the healthcare system? Cause you cant just set up shop in most states... its not allowed because local law prevents it.

    Look at one of the first laws Bush signed into law after the 2000 election. It prohibited the Federal government in negotiating the cheapest price with the pharma industry.. and it made it a criminal offence to take a few boxes of asprin over the Canadian border, let alone import drugs sold from the US into Canada back.. because that would cut into the profit margins in the US...

    So yes, the industry is to blame because they control the politicians who write the rules and can change the system. As long as they do that, then YOU will be paying more and more for your healthcare and I pray to god that no one in your family ever gets seriously ill because chances are you wont be able to absorb a 100+k bill despite having insurance.
    PeteEU

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    The free market does not work in healthcare. How much more evidence do you need??
    \\

    What we need is National Healthcare systems that let patients die because drugs are soooo expensive.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    The free market does not work in healthcare. How much more evidence do you need??
    How about some evidence that the free market doesn't work in heath care?

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    That study compares England to Europe. Not the US. By the way, have you heard about all those countries trying to get rid of their UHC system and get one like ours?
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    \\

    What we need is National Healthcare systems that let patients die because drugs are soooo expensive.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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