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Thread: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    “Not all patients with a particular condition benefit from a drug and some drugs only work really well for some patients or at a particular stage in a disease.

    “It is wrong to recommend the use of treatments where the additional benefit is uncertain.

    “This is misleading for patients and wastes scarce NHS resources.

    “Drugs, especially those for cancer, which extend life at the end of life are very important and since January 2009, we have given special weight to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So in you mind it is better to deny everyone?
    Sounds like this might be a good argument for their postion. Maybe a little evidnece based medicine involved in decision making.
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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So in you mind it is better to deny everyone?
    It's almost pointless engaging them. Obamacare has absolutely NOTHING to do with HealthCare and everything to do with control. If the Federal Government controls your HC, they can control every aspect of your life. It doesn't matter to these disciples who worship at the altar of Obama that another lie regarding Obamacare has been exposed. The agenda is what matters. Centralized Government Control over your life. Lies can be dismissed as long as they further the agenda. When more lies are exposed and more false promises are revealed, those will also be explained and spun away by Left Wing Big Government religious fanatics. Truth doesn't matter to them anymore. They sold out to Obama.

    The sleazy and corrupt liberal controlled IRS is going to run this monstrosity. Nothing more needs to be said. The notion that because Government is taking over and controlling HC now it's going to make it better is laughable. It's grounded in a religious belief in Government. Not reality.

    Lawsuit claims IRS agents illegally seized medical records - Washington Times

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    It was posted earlier in this thread, I beleive.

    That is not evidence that the free market doesn't work, nor is it sufficient information to make a reasonable evaluation of WHY the costs vary.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Just wondering. Are you guys still dead set against Electronic Medical Records?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    It's almost pointless engaging them. Obamacare has absolutely NOTHING to do with HealthCare and everything to do with control. If the Federal Government controls your HC, they can control every aspect of your life. It doesn't matter to these disciples who worship at the altar of Obama that another lie regarding Obamacare has been exposed. The agenda is what matters. Centralized Government Control over your life. Lies can be dismissed as long as they further the agenda. When more lies are exposed and more false promises are revealed, those will also be explained and spun away by Left Wing Big Government religious fanatics. Truth doesn't matter to them anymore. They sold out to Obama.

    The sleazy and corrupt liberal controlled IRS is going to run this monstrosity. Nothing more needs to be said. The notion that because Government is taking over and controlling HC now it's going to make it better is laughable. It's grounded in a religious belief in Government. Not reality.

    Lawsuit claims IRS agents illegally seized medical records - Washington Times
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Just wondering. Are you guys still dead set against Electronic Medical Records?
    Just wondering. Do you guys still think Government taking control of everyone's HC is going to make it cheaper and more efficient?

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    UHC will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Just wondering. Do you guys still think Government taking control of everyone's HC is going to make it cheaper and more efficient?
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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    “Not all patients with a particular condition benefit from a drug and some drugs only work really well for some patients or at a particular stage in a disease.

    So shouldn't those people get the drug?


    “It is wrong to recommend the use of treatments where the additional benefit is uncertain.

    Let's break this statement down into the two key pieces:

    1) The benefit of the drug is uncertain
    2a) It's wrong to recommend a drug whose additional benefits are uncertain

    While #1 is arguably true, the second in an abomination of socialized health care. Here is a different way to view #2:

    2b) It is wrong to DENY a drug when it may be of benefit.

    Until recently the US system operated under 2b.


    “This is misleading for patients and wastes scarce NHS resources.

    For those keeping score at home I bolded the one true statement made in this list of quotes.


    “Drugs, especially those for cancer, which extend life at the end of life are very important and since January 2009, we have given special weight to them.

    Bureaucratic mumbo jumbo that does only one thing: Admits that there is a problem in their system, and gives worthless assurances that they are doing better now. In fact, as the article showed they may very well be lying. I know, I know... a government official lying?! That never happens...


    Sounds like this might be a good argument for their postion. Maybe a little evidnece based medicine involved in decision making.

    It's actually a very poor argument. Do you give away all your freedoms for such weak sop?

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    I don't really understand how so many people on this forum think our healthcare is even remotely good? I can't think of a person I have ever met in real life that described our health care system as providing quality care at affordable prices? Where are you guys getting these notions that all is well??? It is absolutely baffling.

    If you have any kind of substantial health issue arise it ends in massive bills. 10k, 25k, if something really bad happens 100k+

    Only the top 10% or people with incredibly good insurance can weather this without significant economic hardship or in many cases bankruptcy, ruin.

    Who the hell calls that "good"?

    If you look at statistics, rankings, indicators, almost all of them are embarrassingly bad for the U.S. compared to other developed countries. We came behind CUBA for gods sake.

    Of course right-wing propaganda tells a different story, all is well the rich tell the fools, lol.
    From an individuals point of view, I can certainly see how people think the system is good. If you are an individual with insurance provided by a large corporation who either self insures or negotiates rates based on a massive group size, and that company benefits from the tax subsidies for health insurance, you might see just a few dollars coming out of your check every month and have great coverage. The group of people that enjoy these plans is a good sized group, and when you combine them with other people who are very happy with the status quo (on an individual level), like folks on Medicare, you have more than 50% of the country who has it pretty good. Medicaid recipients have it alright as do veterans.

    What you are left with is a minority that is getting severely shafted, these are people like me that run their own businesses or people that work for small businesses who don't a group size large enough to negotiate competitive rates. The solution to this COULD have been the public option, whereby everyone who wanted to be in the public option group could be, making it a VERY LARGE group that could have negotiated rates as well as better as any big company. But alas, the insurance industry lobbied HARD against this with hundreds of millions of dollars, protecting their $20 billion in profits by controlling our $2T health industry.

    There really are two Americas when it comes to healthcare, but it is not a rich/poor dichotomy, but a matter of systemic luck, if you happen to be in the groups that are in good shape, you have good coverage and the best medical care on the planet, if you are not part of these groups, your access, costs, and outcomes are severely altered for the worse. If you look at the US in totality we perform poorly in comparison along virtually every major variable, but if you were to look at the same statistics among the insured, we would likely be well ahead of the rest of the world, and conversely if you looked at everyone in America that does not fall into those groups of good coverage, our standings and outcomes would be much farther below the rest of the world.

    What the people who are getting screwed are saying is that they don't care if the system blows up for everyone else, it has been blown up for them for a long, long time, and it may be that the only way we will address the real problems as a society is everyone gets a taste of how bad it has been for the rest for a long time.

    I have been paying nearly 20k a year for a while now because I am an entrepreneur in a small business. I would like a level playing field on healthcare costs with big business employees, I am healthier and take better care of myself that most of those people, but am left out because I am not part of big corporate America. Leveling the playing field should mean that I can get coverage for the same rates the big corporations pay, but if means that they pay the crazy high premiums I pay, so be it, that will still move us along toward a fix.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I do not believe any amount of people committing suicide with firearms justifies requiring firearm sellers to preach to customers about suicide regardless if it would or wouldn't save those who commit suicide.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Actually chemo drugs and many other drugs are very dangerous, and all drugs have side effects. and no, if there is no reason to belive it will help, or if it will cause more harm than good, to a patient it should not be given. Think of it as risk vs benefit. I have seen chemo cause great harm and even have fatal side effects. I dont even know where you got the 2b idea or the rest of that post. Are you a doctor or did you stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night? But I gotta go home. Nice chatting with you today
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    So shouldn't those people get the drug?





    Let's break this statement down into the two key pieces:

    1) The benefit of the drug is uncertain
    2a) It's wrong to recommend a drug whose additional benefits are uncertain

    While #1 is arguably true, the second in an abomination of socialized health care. Here is a different way to view #2:

    2b) It is wrong to DENY a drug when it may be of benefit.

    Until recently the US system operated under 2b.





    For those keeping score at home I bolded the one true statement made in this list of quotes.





    Bureaucratic mumbo jumbo that does only one thing: Admits that there is a problem in their system, and gives worthless assurances that they are doing better now. In fact, as the article showed they may very well be lying. I know, I know... a government official lying?! That never happens...





    It's actually a very poor argument. Do you give away all your freedoms for such weak sop?
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    This has been going around for a while now. The $20k figure comes from an example the IRS uses in one of their publications. At this point I'm not even sure anybody knows what a "Bronze Level" plan will have to consist of.

    That being said, we do know what the penalties are going to be and I'll pretty much guarantee you that for someone single, in good health and with no kids it will be a whole lot cheaper to pay the fine.
    Cheaper but you get nothing for your money. It's cheaper just to die too if that is all you care about.

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