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Thread: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220:563]

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    What makes you angry at me? Science deals with observable, measurable phenomena. Faith deals with beliefs. They aren't in any way connected. Since science can't observe the creation of our universe, it can only make assumptions from what can be observed. So far that isn't enough to figure it all out. It may never be. What does that have to do with faith?
    First...
    Cool your jets, nobody's angry here.

    Second...
    I thought it rather obvious from that last detailed post...."you can no more prove yours right than you can prove ours wrong..."

    If one cannot prove his own belief and cannot disprove another's, while both may not be exactly equivalent [ one or the other may actually be the truth, but who knows which one...???] both are ...

    ...just separate belief systems, we both place our faith in our own belief system, your faith in your belief system, science, has no more validity than our faith in our belief system... not a particularly difficult or complex concept, at least I didn't think it should be...

    If that does not quite do it for you, sorry...you will have to go elsewhere as that should be abundantly plain, for a rational thinker...

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    First...
    Cool your jets, nobody's angry here.

    Second...
    I thought it rather obvious from that last detailed post...."you can no more prove yours right than you can prove ours wrong..."

    If one cannot prove his own belief and cannot disprove another's, while both may not be exactly equivalent [ one or the other may actually be the truth, but who knows which one...???] both are ...

    ...just separate belief systems, we both place our faith in our own belief system, your faith in your belief system, science, has no more validity than our faith in our belief system... not a particularly hard concept, at least I didn't think it should be...

    If that does not quite do it for you, sorry...you will have to go elsewhere as that should be abundantly plain, for a rational thinker...
    No need to insult me. Let's go back again. Science deals with observable and measurable phenomena. It isn't a belief system. It is an understanding of how nature works. Faith is based on nothing but belief. There is no observation, no measurement, no phenomena. Also note that it is impossible to disprove the existence of something. It is only possible to prove it. Science is a method for proving natural phenomena. Faith is not. Have faith. I have no problem with it. But don't confuse it with facts.

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, why are you bashing the dude as a hypocrite?
    Read the thread.

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    No need to insult me. Let's go back again. Science deals with observable and measurable phenomena. It isn't a belief system. It is an understanding of how nature works. Faith is based on nothing but belief. There is no observation, no measurement, no phenomena. Also note that it is impossible to disprove the existence of something. It is only possible to prove it. Science is a method for proving natural phenomena. Faith is not. Have faith. I have no problem with it. But don't confuse it with facts.
    Take the blue up there. When you go back so far that there just is no more there there, nothing left that can be observed and/or that is measurable, which you previously acknowledged may just be the case, to the point where, perhaps, fact may never be figured out, never “known”....when that far back, how is one to then determine from where we, from where did everything come?


    And there may be those that do not try to“know”, some leave it there. But if one tries take it further, then one is left only with what you may or not decide to believe.

    So, why not just tell me what is provable… I will then tell you that everything that came before, well that can but only be a belief. We both have different beliefs, obviously. So, wanna tell me what is provable?



    RED
    Is Faith solely reliant upon belief? No bible scholar, here, just know enough to plausibly prove my points. Many of these points might spread across the vast spectrum of historical world religions as well.

    No, you say, "no observation, no measurement, no phenomena". Nothing?

    One, many religions say they obtained higher powered assistance. Two the most successful of these, provably, is the monotheist religion following the Jehovah/Jesus belief. Many teachings given in its book form a guide, proven, observably, measurably, perhaps even to the point of achieving the idea of “wildly”, successful…plus more than moderately long-lived, enduring . Provably successful "serving" 2 billion adherents world wide, continuous for what, 2000 years…? Not too shabby one presupposes. Three Has a history, the event phenoena, does it not? Also well documented/much provable. So, isn’t quite a bit of all that measurable? Good teachings from somewhere, credit given to god, voluntarily accepted, more than “mildly” successful…prosperous, powerful even, cross checking many of the states with which there is association.

    So how is science so much much more…regale me with the facts again, please?




    What do you call it when you also cannot prove the origin of something? If origin proving is impossible, would you not, if you wanted to have an answer for where things came from, would you not have to rely upon what you “believe” , as there are just no facts to confirm? When you only have that “believe” part of the equation, you have only your belief system… and we, over here, have ours as well. I cannot care if you are insulted as I cannot not ask this [ am willing to break those dub-neg grammar rules as well ]…

    Just how is it that do you not get this? I mean, assuming you do not get it. Had not previously thought I would have had to make that assumption. But through ongoing scientific observation and measurement, I was able to determine that in all probability, tho unfortunate, that you just will not.

    Perhaps just cannot, I can assure you I have no idea why. But see, we actually do believe in science as well.
    Last edited by Gaugingcatenate; 06-02-13 at 02:41 PM.

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    There is a thoughtful, worth-the-read article in the Washington Post today that explains why, from the perspective of Scout leaders, gay activists, religious conservatives and historians of Scouting, after "more than three decades of scorched-earth opposition," the Boy Scouts did its "flip."


    - The Washington Post

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    None, not everyone believes that being gay is a sin.
    He does and his congregation does and that is the point of it.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    He does and his congregation does and that is the point of it.
    That is the point of it.

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker


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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Private business, using their own private property, their own funds, cannot discriminate in this manner.
    For profit enities are under contract law and are there by creatures of the State and it is not unreasonable to have such restrictions that no discrimination by category can exist. Churches are outside such strictures (they do not invole contract law) and should not be subject to them. I believe that non-profit enities should not be regulated as such nor taxed since they are not for profit and they serve a social purpose.


    Why are churches legally different?
    Because the 1st Admendment of the Constitution says Congress cannot inhibit the free exersise of religion and forcing the boy scouts on a congregation does so.


    I know why they are, by the way, I just don't think it should be legal.
    Nice to know you are agianst the free exercise of religion.

    Churches enjoy favorable tax status under 401c laws.
    Thats because they are non-profit enities and they recieve donations from their members which is used for ongoing expenses and mission work. Any business or other property that brings revenue, however should be taxed.

    They should have to adhere to The Civil Rights Act just like everyone else.
    The Civil Rights Act was brought about to counter socialized discrimination that previously was institutionlized through Jim Crow Laws. Later more groups were brought under the Civil Rights Act due to political pressure from splinter groups in minorities like women (though they make up slighly more than 50% of the population) the Hispanic (they are now a "race" and not a cultrual group).

    However, when it comes to homosexuality it comes close to the core of what the Christian religion stands for. Since homosexual acts are considered a sin which is done by thought, word or deed; and since repentance is nessasary for the forgivness of sins; and a person who identifies and accepts his homosexuality would be considered stuborn in their sin; and such a person would not be considered forgiven and futhermore would be subject to correction if a member of the Church; and given that hositng an orginization that accepts members who do so would also be accepting that the perosn is correct to do so; then the Church cannot by its Faith accept such orginizations and host them.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Take the blue up there. When you go back so far that there just is no more there there, nothing left that can be observed and/or that is measurable, which you previously acknowledged may just be the case, to the point where, perhaps, fact may never be figured out, never “known”....when that far back, how is one to then determine from where we, from where did everything come?


    Why are we going over the same thing again. I said it is a mystery.


    And there may be those that do not try to“know”, some leave it there. But if one tries take it further, then one is left only with what you may or not decide to believe.

    So, why not just tell me what is provable… I will then tell you that everything that came before, well that can but only be a belief. We both have different beliefs, obviously. So, wanna tell me what is provable?

    No I don't have to time to school you on the scientific method. If you're interested, do some research.


    Is Faith solely reliant upon belief? No bible scholar, here, just know enough to plausibly prove my points. Many of these points might spread across the vast spectrum of historical world religions as well.

    No, you say, "no observation, no measurement, no phenomena". Nothing?
    Yes

    One, many religions say they obtained higher powered assistance. Two the most successful of these, provably, is the monotheist religion following the Jehovah/Jesus belief. Many teachings given in its book form a guide, proven, observably, measurably, perhaps even to the point of achieving the idea of “wildly”, successful…plus more than moderately long-lived, enduring . Provably successful "serving" 2 billion adherents world wide, continuous for what, 2000 years…? Not too shabby one presupposes. Three Has a history, the event phenoena, does it not? Also well documented/much provable. So, isn’t quite a bit of all that measurable? Good teachings from somewhere, credit given to god, voluntarily accepted, more than “mildly” successful…prosperous, powerful even, cross checking many of the states with which there is association.
    I didn't say religion wasn't successful or widespread. I said it is a belief.

    So how is science so much much more…regale me with the facts again, please? [/COLOR]

    Why? You don't want to hear them. Go do some reasearch.



    What do you call it when you also cannot prove the origin of something? If origin proving is impossible, would you not, if you wanted to have an answer for where things came from, would you not have to rely upon what you “believe” , as there are just no facts to confirm? When you only have that “believe” part of the equation, you have only your belief system… and we, over here, have ours as well. I cannot care if you are insulted as I cannot not ask this [ am willing to break those dub-neg grammar rules as well ]…

    Just how is it that do you not get this? I mean, assuming you do not get it. Had not previously thought I would have had to make that assumption. But through ongoing scientific observation and measurement, I was able to determine that in all probability, tho unfortunate, that you just will not.

    Perhaps just cannot, I can assure you I have no idea why. But see, we actually do believe in science as well.
    Sorry, that was just too jumbled for me to understand. I'm sure you're right. Good day.

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