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Thread: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

  1. #41
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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You'll get no argument from me if they ALL had to pay taxes. But that's not the way it works. ACORN, as an example, was a 501c4, difference being any contribution to THAT organization was tax deductible, unlike c3's. If that wasn't filled with political ideology, I don't know what group was.
    Absolutely right Maggie - they were so filled with political ideology, many of it's members were convicted of election fraud trying to get Obama into the White House.

    I suppose, if you're on the loonie left, you could argue that getting the Obama's into social housing was their goal, so all is good.
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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    He did indeed, as the President he's responsible for the people who work under him. I'm not leaning to the left here, I think the level of detail the IRS went into for these conservative groups should be the level of detail for every tax exempt organization. That's not a left wing position. And I don't even believe that tax exempt status should be given to any organization that engages in any political activity whatsoever, not the current law where as long as its not your primary activity then you're OK. That's not a left wing position either because the left wing groups, just like the ring wing, want that tax exempt status for their political organizations pretending to be social welfare groups so they can hide their donor lists.
    But they didnt. Either way you slice it, they either put the right wing groups under additional scrutiny or they allowed less scrutiny on the left wing groups, either action is a violation of civil rights under afiliation laws. Current laws dont allow the types of questions that were being asked and it was being directed through Washington, there is already an email trail. I dont look at this like you do, the IRS is required to be within the law at all times---I would rather we had citizens and political groups getting away with tax evasion than the IRS being used to carry out political agendas and chilling political speech and organizing. Would you be ok with extra examination of Roman Catholic churches and less for Protestant churches? Its the very same thing and probably more damaging because its directed at political opposition.

    Your problem, and the one of many of the left on this board is that you have bought the Citizens United excuse hook, line and sinker and think its going to ruin politics. Well, it didnt ruin it before and it probably wont again. If your agenda is to eliminate non profits that engage in any political activity at all, be prepared for the fallout because its my belief there are a lot more left wing than right wing groups on that list.

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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    But they didnt. Either way you slice it, they either put the right wing groups under additional scrutiny or they allowed less scrutiny on the left wing groups, either action is a violation of civil rights under afiliation laws. Current laws dont allow the types of questions that were being asked and it was being directed through Washington, there is already an email trail. I dont look at this like you do, the IRS is required to be within the law at all times---I would rather we had citizens and political groups getting away with tax evasion than the IRS being used to carry out political agendas and chilling political speech and organizing. Would you be ok with extra examination of Roman Catholic churches and less for Protestant churches? Its the very same thing and probably more damaging because its directed at political opposition.

    Your problem, and the one of many of the left on this board is that you have bought the Citizens United excuse hook, line and sinker and think its going to ruin politics. Well, it didnt ruin it before and it probably wont again. If your agenda is to eliminate non profits that engage in any political activity at all, be prepared for the fallout because its my belief there are a lot more left wing than right wing groups on that list.
    I don't care about how many left wing groups there are or right wing groups that would be damaged by not being allowed to claim tax exempt status. I don't deny the IRS did something wrong. I totally agree that all these groups, regardless of their political opinions, should be treated equally under the law. I'm not political and I'm not interested in helping one type of group over another type. If you think there's something "left wing" about all that, then fine I'm left wing.

    Also, I don't like people telling me what my opinions are. So don't presume to tell me what my opinion is about something because it fits into whatever little made up sterotype you've created in your head or subscribed to by someone who told you want to believe, or whatever other reason you have it. Why don't you ask what my opinion on Citizen's United is instead of just telling me?

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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You'll get no argument from me if they ALL had to pay taxes. But that's not the way it works. ACORN, as an example, was a 501c4, difference being any contribution to THAT organization was tax deductible, unlike c3's. If that wasn't filled with political ideology, I don't know what group was.
    Do you have proof ACORN was indeed a 501c4 and not a 501c3?


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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Do you have proof ACORN was indeed a 501c4 and not a 501c3?
    Only Wiki. Sometimes they're not right . . .

    ACORN was composed of a number of legally distinct nonprofit entities and affiliates including a nationwide umbrella organization established as a 501(c)(4) that performed lobbying; local chapters established as 501(c)(3) nonpartisan charities; and the national nonprofit and nonstock organization, ACORN Housing Corporation. ACORN's priorities included: better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, better public schools, labor-oriented causes and social justice issues. ACORN pursued these goals through demonstration, negotiation, lobbying for legislation, and voter participation.[
    Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I don't care about how many left wing groups there are or right wing groups that would be damaged by not being allowed to claim tax exempt status. I don't deny the IRS did something wrong. I totally agree that all these groups, regardless of their political opinions, should be treated equally under the law. I'm not political and I'm not interested in helping one type of group over another type. If you think there's something "left wing" about all that, then fine I'm left wing.

    Also, I don't like people telling me what my opinions are. So don't presume to tell me what my opinion is about something because it fits into whatever little made up sterotype you've created in your head or subscribed to by someone who told you want to believe, or whatever other reason you have it. Why don't you ask what my opinion on Citizen's United is instead of just telling me?
    You are already excusing the behavior by saying the problem was it wasnt done to both groups. The problem was it was done at all. Organizations dont have to reveal their member lists, event attendees (if free)---they have to reveal donor lists and funding streams. They certainly dont have to reveal what church they go to and prayer information! The information ebing asked for isnt legal. It never should have been done. It goes a lot higher than a few people in Cincinnati.

    Secondly you have all the earmarks of someone crabby about Citizens United---these groups were abusing the law, etc etc. Thats the left talking point and has been since this started---to deflect from whether there was political targeting and one sided investigations.

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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is exactly what the IRS is supposed to do with these groups, political organizations trying to pass themselves off as social welfare or charity organizations. And in an investigation you need information. The only problem was they didn't give the liberal groups trying to cheat the tax system the same level of analysis.

    I can understand conservative angry that these groups were treated differently, but I can't understand their anger that many of them weren't able to cheat the American taxpayer. Integrity is a lost virtue.
    But all the liberal groups were given a pass by the IRS to cheat the American taxpayer and the conservative groups were not. Now do you get why they are angry? The IRS is supposed to treat everyone the same --- Right? Guess not.
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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Only Wiki. Sometimes they're not right . . .

    ACORN was composed of a number of legally distinct nonprofit entities and affiliates including a nationwide umbrella organization established as a 501(c)(4) that performed lobbying; local chapters established as 501(c)(3) nonpartisan charities; and the national nonprofit and nonstock organization, ACORN Housing Corporation. ACORN's priorities included: better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, better public schools, labor-oriented causes and social justice issues. ACORN pursued these goals through demonstration, negotiation, lobbying for legislation, and voter participation.[ACORN was composed of a number of legally distinct nonprofit entities and affiliates including a nationwide umbrella organization established as a 501(c)(4) that performed lobbying; local chapters established as 501(c)(3) nonpartisan charities; and the national nonprofit and nonstock organization, ACORN Housing Corporation. ACORN's priorities included: better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, better public schools, labor-oriented causes and social justice issues. ACORN pursued these goals through demonstration, negotiation, lobbying for legislation, and voter participation.[
    Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That says the national umbrella organization was a 501c4, while the local chapters were 501c3's. So, donations to the local chapers are tax deductible.


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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    That says the national umbrella organization was a 501c4, while the local chapters were 501c3's. So, donations to the local chapers are tax deductible.
    You and I agree. Here's what I said:

    ACORN, as an example, was a 501c4, difference being any contribution to THAT organization was tax deductible, unlike c3's. If that wasn't filled with political ideology, I don't know what group was.
    Oh, I see. I had it exactly backwards. Mea culpa. However, as you point out, their contributions were tax deductible.
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    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You and I agree. Here's what I said:



    Oh, I see. I had it exactly backwards. Mea culpa. However, as you point out, their contributions were tax deductible.
    Yes, the local 501c3 organizations were.


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