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IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show[W:249]

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Additional scrutiny of conservative organizations’ activities by the IRS did not solely originate in the agency’s Cincinnati office, with requests for information coming from other offices and often bearing the signatures of higher-ups at the agency, according to attorneys representing some of the targeted groups. At least one letter requesting information about one of the groups bears the signature of Lois Lerner, the suspended director of the IRS Exempt Organizations department in Washington.

Jay Sekulow, an attorney representing 27 conservative political advocacy organizations that applied to the Internal Revenue Service for tax-exempt status, provided some of the letters to NBC News. He said the groups’ contacts with the IRS prove that the practices went beyond a few “front line” employees in the Cincinnati office, as the IRS has maintained.

“We've dealt with 15 agents, including tax law specialists -- that's lawyers -- from four different offices, including (the) Treasury (Department) in Washington, D.C.,” Sekulow said. “So the idea that this is a couple of rogue agents in Cincinnati is not correct.”

IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show - Open Channel




drip drip drip
And up the ladder it goes
Remember it took a year into the Watergate scandal before Nixon was forced out of office
I want this to be long, slow, and painful for this administration
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Would you describe these groups as primarily political in nature?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Would you describe these groups as primarily political in nature?

Irrelevant, they were targeting certain ideologies and not all of them.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Would you describe these groups as primarily political in nature?

Would you describe these groups as primarily political in nature?

• Bus for Progress, a New Jersey non-profit that uses a red, white and blue bus to "drive the progressive change." According to its website, its mission includes "support (for) progressive politicians with the courage to serve the people's interests and make tough choices." It got an IRS approval as a social welfare group in April 2011.

• Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment says it fights against corporate welfare and for increasing the minimum wage. "It would be fair to say we're on the progressive end of the spectrum," said executive director Jeff Ordower. He said the group got tax-exempt status in September 2011 in just nine months after "a pretty simple, straightforward process."

• Progress Florida, granted tax-exempt status in January 2011, is lobbying the Florida Legislature to expand Medicaid under a provision of the Affordable Care Act, one of President Obama's signature accomplishments. The group did not return phone calls. "We're busy fighting to build a more progressive Florida and cannot take your call right now," the group's voice mail said

they got their approval as little as 9 months.

the IRS approved 65 liberal groups. during the same time frame they only approved 3 conservative groups
Not one conservative group got denied so they couldn't even make an appear. they was just left in limbo for over 27 months and most are still waiting
 
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Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Would you describe these groups as primarily political in nature?

Certainly not, they were engaged in 'social welfare'...
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

It's possible we now know why she took the 5th.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Would you describe these groups as primarily political in nature?

What difference does it make?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

It's possible we now know why she took the 5th.

Because she perjured herself, by saying that there were no crime committed.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Would you describe these groups as primarily political in nature?

Aren't they all, but geeee the only ones the IRS targeted we're conservative groups. Is that a new relation that has just come to you
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Certainly not, they were engaged in 'social welfare'...
so advocating for the Presidents policies isn't political, but protesting against them is?
You are an insufferable Ideologue, and your letting your bias cloud you common sense and logic to the point your making yourself look like a fool
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

so advocating for the presidents policies isn't political, but protesting against them is?
You are an insufferable ideologue, and your letting your bias cloud you common sense and logic to the point your making yourself look like a fool

pardon me...? Perhaps you should check the thread for the post I replied to...before you let your ideology cloud YOUR intelligence...
 
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Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

pardon me...? Perhaps you should check the thread for the post I replied to...before you let your ideology cloud YOUR intelligence...

i was assuming you was replying to me because I also asked the same question and made a list of liberal groups that were definitely political in nature and they received their approval. So i apologize
 
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Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

i was assuming you was replying to me because I also asked the same question and made a list of liberal groups that were definitely political in nature and i apologize

Thank you for this.

Earlier today we discussed the definition of 'social welfare' which I have been struggling to get my head around. It would seem that since governance being the fabric that maintains 'social order' through protection of rights (theoretically) any organization (left or right) engaged in issues/legislation/candidates (politics in general) would be engaged in 'social welfare'. I'm well aware that that is not at issue here but rather the targeting of one 'lean' which frankly is tyranny.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Aren't they all, but geeee the only ones the IRS targeted we're conservative groups. Is that a new relation that has just come to you

Imagine if this had happened during Bush, Deuce's head would have exploded.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show - Open Channel




drip drip drip
And up the ladder it goes
Remember it took a year into the Watergate scandal before Nixon was forced out of office
I want this to be long, slow, and painful for this administration

hmmm, profiling people who are likely using tax free status improperly. I would not know any republicans who would do that to say muslims, blacks, latinos, atheists, jews, women.......Hey Mr pot, the kettle called and said you are black.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

hmmm, profiling people who are likely using tax free status improperly. I would not know any republicans who would do that to say muslims, blacks, latinos, atheists, jews, women.......Hey Mr pot, the kettle called and said you are black.

There is a difference between would and did. They did profile against republicans. In this case, the republicans have not profiled for any of your given reasons. Anything to get away from what really happened here.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

There is a difference between would and did. They did profile against republicans. In this case, the republicans have not profiled for any of your given reasons. Anything to get away from what really happened here.

yes, and it is a known fact they stop and frisk black people more than whites. Joe arpio has just been found guilty of profiling hispanics and pulling them over more due to his prejudice. They have tried to put policies in place at homeland security to promote a more equal secuity check on all people because of profiling on muslims. Yes, these issues are mainly due to the racism and fears promoted by republican/right wing people. I have to say in some cases profiling makes a lot of sense. If you are looking for muslim terrorists who have threatened to blow up things you would probably want to focus on muslims. If you are looking for illegal hispanics you would probably want to check hispanic people. if you are looking for people trying to use tax free corporation status improperly you will probably want to focus on a group that hates taxes with a passion, especially when you have a huge increase in their applications.

I am not saying some of this stuff is wrong from a logical law enforcement standpoint, but it certainly does suck when it comes down on your group. I can see why the IRS did it, and i can see why it causes people to be worried. I can also see it is part of their job to make sure people are not evading taxes, and that is extra money we have to pay. I also note that the application was never a necessity, nor did it actually stop the operation of these groups.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

yes, and it is a known fact they stop and frisk black people more than whites. Joe arpio has just been found guilty of profiling hispanics and pulling them over more due to his prejudice. They have tried to put policies in place at homeland security to promote a more equal secuity check on all people because of profiling on muslims. Yes, these issues are mainly due to the racism and fears promoted by republican/right wing people. I have to say in some cases profiling makes a lot of sense. If you are looking for muslim terrorists who have threatened to blow up things you would probably want to focus on muslims. If you are looking for illegal hispanics you would probably want to check hispanic people. if you are looking for people trying to use tax free corporation status improperly you will probably want to focus on a group that hates taxes with a passion, especially when you have a huge increase in their applications.

I am not saying some of this stuff is wrong from a logical law enforcement standpoint, but it certainly does suck when it comes down on your group. I can see why the IRS did it, and i can see why it causes people to be worried. I can also see it is part of their job to make sure people are not evading taxes, and that is extra money we have to pay. I also note that the application was never a necessity, nor did it actually stop the operation of these groups.

But this is a Federal level situation. It is also the most prying federal arm of the government.

Joe is one guy on the border. The IRS is everywhere. Joe is a local. IRS is federal. Huge difference.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

But this is a Federal level situation. It is also the most prying federal arm of the government.

yes, the IRS does have to confirm your claims and that does require you submit your taxes and things that other places would never see. We have areas in our society where people are trusted with information about you others are not allowed to see. For example hospitals are very prying and have your health records. Now if the IRS was broadcasting private info on the tea party organizations I would totally agree that was criminal and way out of line. But that is not what they are accused of doing. the IRS actually does try and keep it's records secure, though there are certain areas where the public does have a right to certain information. Still, the IRS has a purpose in getting your info, and doing things like audits. Are you telling us that the IRS should just trust everyone is paying their taxes without looking at any income information? You make and file your claims. yes, that means the IRS gets information no onbe else is shown. yes, they have a purpose and an interest in doing this, and certainly this is not something that falls just on conservatives.

I will say i am all for a new tax code where the government does not get that information and collects taxes based on commerce. I buy something, I pay tax on the sale. My corporation buys something, it pays tax on the sale. No longer do we have to fill out income tax forms and report personal information tot he IRS because it can all be done POS and pretty much anonymously. I am actually for changing the system, but under the present system the IRS has a duty to investigate taxes and organizations that avoid paying taxes to make sure they are abiding by the exceptions to the code. If you want to change the code i am on board. if you want to politicize this into an attack on a certain party and not focus on actually reforming the code I am going to call it what it is, and that is a farce.


Joe is one guy on the border. The IRS is everywhere. Joe is a local. IRS is federal. Huge difference.

Homeland security and police are not local only. they exist all across the US and are pushed into profiling all the time. In many cases they actually do it. Joe is just an example. I am wordy enough, I do not need to go out and show examples for every town in the US.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

In February of this year I got a letter from the IRS stating that I owed $27,000 in unpaid taxes from 2011.

In 2011 I had sold about $75,000 worth of stock and used the money for a remolding project at my home. The sale was reported to the IRS and separately, my initial investment cost for the stock(this is all money that I'd already payed taxes on. Nothing pre-tax) was also provided to them. They failed to connect the sale to the initial purchase and immediately billed me for taxes on $75,000 of income that wasn't actually income. It was pretty much the same thing as if I had taken the money out of a savings account. But because it is the IRS we are talking about, I was presumed guilty and they gave me about 2 weeks to pony up 27 grand or face penalties and interest. I ended up having to go back to my accountant and they had to file an amended return for 2011. It cost me a little over $600 for them to do this. I ended up actually getting back $175 from the federal government because it turned out that the stock that I sold had lost a little of it's initial value.

The bottom line is that the IRS wields an incredible amount of power. They can pull crap like this whenever they want and there is no such thing as "due process" when they target you. So when you hear about them being involved with targeting groups for political reasons it ought to scare the hell out of everyone. Any defense of their activities in this scandal is nothing more than a shameless display of partisanship.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show - Open Channel




drip drip drip
And up the ladder it goes
Remember it took a year into the Watergate scandal before Nixon was forced out of office
I want this to be long, slow, and painful for this administration

This is of course is the way organizations should work, decisions coming from the top. If it was determined that a group was inappropriately requesting a non profit status, you would expect additional scrunity of that group, wouldn't you? What if that group was liberal instead of conservative? You would be all for it. It was about a year or two ago conservatives wanted the IRS scrutinize Media Matters for America which is a 501c3. I of course don't know exactly why the targeting occurred, but what I said certainly makes logical sense.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

This is of course is the way organizations should work, decisions coming from the top. If it was determined that a group was inappropriately requesting a non profit status, you would expect additional scrunity of that group, wouldn't you? What if that group was liberal instead of conservative? You would be all for it. It was about a year or two ago conservatives wanted the IRS scrutinize Media Matters for America which is a 501c3. I of course don't know exactly why the targeting occurred, but what I said certainly makes logical sense.


shouldn't these groups received extra scrutiny?

• Bus for Progress, a New Jersey non-profit that uses a red, white and blue bus to "drive the progressive change." According to its website, its mission includes "support (for) progressive politicians with the courage to serve the people's interests and make tough choices." It got an IRS approval as a social welfare group in April 2011.

• Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment says it fights against corporate welfare and for increasing the minimum wage. "It would be fair to say we're on the progressive end of the spectrum," said executive director Jeff Ordower. He said the group got tax-exempt status in September 2011 in just nine months after "a pretty simple, straightforward process."

• Progress Florida, granted tax-exempt status in January 2011, is lobbying the Florida Legislature to expand Medicaid under a provision of the Affordable Care Act, one of President Obama's signature accomplishments. The group did not return phone calls. "We're busy fighting to build a more progressive Florida and cannot take your call right now," the group's voice mail said

they got their approval as little as 9 months.

the IRS approved 65 liberal groups. during the same time frame they only approved 3 conservative groups
Not one conservative group got denied so they couldn't even make an appear. they was just left in limbo for over 27 months and most are still waiting
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show



Obama 10-25-2010
"We’re going to punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends"

the IRS approved 65 liberal groups. during the same time frame they only approved 3 conservative groups
Not one conservative group got denied so they couldn't even make an appear. they was just left in limbo for over 27 months and most are still waiting

"Punish are enemies" "Reward our friends"
 
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