Page 9 of 30 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 299

Thread: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show[W:249]

  1. #81
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:28 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Don't know, why does it matter? Aren't they suppose to review all applications? Wouldn't a review of their information (rather that random words in their name) compel further scrutiny if necessary?



    Why would one need to come to that conclusion? Isn't that the point?
    But you'd certainly give a group like "patriot majority" more scrutiny than "Five borough cycling club" If the cycling club said that they weren't engaged in politics, I'd rubber stamp them. If patriot majority said the same thing I'd google their website, probably look at their Facebook posts to see what exactly they were doing.

    And there's a good reason to do that. Not only was there a huge increase in political groups claiming 501c status, but many of these groups submitted false information.

  2. #82
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    07-25-17 @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    But you'd certainly give a group like "patriot majority" more scrutiny than "Five borough cycling club" If the cycling club said that they weren't engaged in politics, I'd rubber stamp them. If patriot majority said the same thing I'd google their website, probably look at their Facebook posts to see what exactly they were doing.
    So you disagree with the IRS who stated that targeting organizations based on their name was wrong? Further as you state below, what if 'five borough cycling club' had indeed 'submitted false information'?

    And there's a good reason to do that. Not only was there a huge increase in political groups claiming 501c status, but many of these groups submitted false information.
    And how does one know this? From the IG report 'none were declined'. Presumably if one submitted 'false information' they would have been denied...right?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  3. #83
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    But an honest take on this says that there was no significant political bias. Conservative 501c groups outspent liberal groups 10:1 and were approved 4:1. Now we see that conservative groups were investigated 2:1. In fact, conservative groups which were investigated outspent liberal groups 34:1.

    Part of being informed on this subject is understanding that the huge rise in 501c4 political groups was almost entirely among conservative groups. Yes, the criteria used was biased. But so too was the abuse.
    You are using the same, discriminatory reasoning that the IRS used. The vast majority of spending by 501c4 groups is done by a handful of organizations.

    There is absolutely no justification - no logic - in applying extra scrutiny (and certainly not to the level seen) to small organizations with "tea-party" in their names simply because 3-4 massive, conservative groups spent 100 million dollars on political ads.

  4. #84
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,136

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    So you disagree with the IRS who stated that targeting organizations based on their name was wrong? Further as you state below, what if 'five borough cycling club' had indeed 'submitted false information'?
    let's look at it from the IRS employees' perspective
    application indicates no involvement in political campaign activity, it goes into the approved stack, as a merit approval. those were easy
    those that come in with indications that most of what they do is involved in political campaign activity are screened out as denied. those were easy to process, too
    now, the rest are more difficult because the regs indicate that political campaign activity cannot be the primary activity of an approved applicant
    so, the employees ask for direction how to gauge the degree of political involvement which rises to the point of being found "primary". and i believe they are still waiting for that guidance
    for the appropriate methodology to use to make that call between primary and tertiary activity
    but the applications continue to roll in and the processing must continue
    and the employees developed a shorthand to identify those which were likely to have a degree of involvement with political activity. and they established some common sense practices. a tea party application probably comes from an organization which has some degree of political activity. so would an application from 'patriots for progress'. notice how that evokes an indication of political involvement, yet it is politically androgynous in that one cannot tell whether it is left or right leaning - but that would not matter to the irs staff because they were only looking for tell tale signs of political involvement. which is why their actions were not driven by partisan politics

    And how does one know this? From the IG report 'none were declined'. Presumably if one submitted 'false information' they would have been denied...right?
    from reading the IG report there were indications that applicants were indicating they were not involved in political activities when an irs employee search of the organization's web site proved otherwise
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  5. #85
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,136

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    You are using the same, discriminatory reasoning that the IRS used. The vast majority of spending by 501c4 groups is done by a handful of organizations.

    There is absolutely no justification - no logic - in applying extra scrutiny (and certainly not to the level seen) to small organizations with "tea-party" in their names simply because 3-4 massive, conservative groups spent 100 million dollars on political ads.
    wrong
    if those tea party applicant organizations were ineligible for tax exempt status, they should not receive the exemption
    having tea party in their name is one clue that they MAY be involved in political campaign activity to the point that it is their primary activity, causing the organization to be ineligible for tax exempt status
    what the IG found was that short hand, using the organization name, as a determining factor, was an inadequate mechanism to cull those requiring closer scrutiny from those which were approvable on the merit of information contained in the application

    what you propose is to dispense with the process and authorize all applicants for tax exempt status. a very dubious approach
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  6. #86
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    having tea party in their name is one clue that they MAY be involved in political campaign activity to the point that it is their primary activity, causing the organization to be ineligible for tax exempt status
    How exactly does having "tea party" in your name provide ANY CLUE WHATSOEVER that it's more likely that political campaign activity will be your primary purpose (i.e. you are lying on your application).

    Mind boggling.

  7. #87
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,136

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    How exactly does having "tea party" in your name provide ANY CLUE WHATSOEVER that it's more likely that political campaign activity will be your primary purpose (i.e. you are lying on your application).

    Mind boggling.
    having tea party in the organization's name is NOT an automatic indicator that its PRIMARY activity is political campaign activity
    however, having tea party in the organization's name is a reasonable indicator that it is engaged in political campaign activity to some degree
    thus causing it to be kicked aside for further determination whether said political activity rose to the point of being primary
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #88
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:12 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    having tea party in the organization's name is a reasonable indicator that it is engaged in political campaign activity to some degree thus causing it to be kicked aside for further determination whether said political activity rose to the point of being primary
    Couldn't be more untrue. There wasn't a single 501(c)(4) group with "tea party" in the name that spent money on the last election.

    If we really want to go the "reasonable indicator" route - the actual data suggest that the IRS should be putting any group with "tea party" in the name onto the "apply minimal scrutiny" pile.

  9. #89
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last Seen
    12-08-13 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,114

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    having tea party in the organization's name is NOT an automatic indicator that its PRIMARY activity is political campaign activity
    however, having tea party in the organization's name is a reasonable indicator that it is engaged in political campaign activity to some degree
    thus causing it to be kicked aside for further determination whether said political activity rose to the point of being primary
    then if you want to prove your theory correct why wasn't their any liberal groups singled out using the same method? wouldn't you think groups with Progressive or Progression in their name would indicate a possible political activity? in the time frame their was only 3 Tea party groups who received their staus when 65 groups with Progress in their name got thiers.

  10. #90
    Traveler

    Jack Hays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamsburg, Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,833
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Which percentages would you accept?
    If two thirds of the targeted groups were conservative then the discussion is over. The case for political bias is made.QED
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Page 9 of 30 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •