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IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show[W:249]

Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

justabubba said:
yes, it said that, but we have no knowledge of what was used as the criteria to make such a call
we have no idea that was a legitimate determination
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If this were an EEO case negotiations for a settlement would already be under way. Two thirds is a damning number. In the words of Mark Twain, I await the outcome with the calm confidence of a Christian holding four aces.:mrgreen:
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

justabubba said:
what makes you conclude that there were no groups/organizations/applicants, other than conservative ones, set aside for further scrutiny?
i would want to see that information
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how were they singeled out? Did they use a liberal buzz word like "Progresive" as a flag to do so. Did they use any liberal words to do so?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

justabubba said:
…a tea party application probably comes from an organization which has some degree of political activity. so would an application from 'patriots for progress'. notice how that evokes an indication of political involvement, yet it is politically androgynous in that one cannot tell whether it is left or right leaning - but that would not matter to the irs staff because they were only looking for tell tale signs of political involvement. which is why their actions were not driven by partisan politics
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(edited for brevity)
There is some logic in your response but parts are still specious. Is it your assertion that the IRS when selecting the ‘targeting’ words were not aware the ‘left or right leanings’ of the ‘tea party’? Your ‘patriots for progress’ is a fair assessment but how many of such organizations were scrutinized? And what of the 9/12 ‘target’? And frankly the underlying issue is the IRS’ interpretation of ‘social welfare’ as applied to the various ‘right or left leaning’ organizations during this scrutiny. One merely reflects on disparity of the application durations between right/left leaning organizations to see something is afoul…and considering this what other explanation is there than partisan politics?...blind luck? If the latter why then did the IRS apologize (as asked previously (sic))?

from reading the IG report there were indications that applicants were indicating they were not involved in political activities when an irs employee search of the organization's web site proved otherwise
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I don’t remember reading such. Perhaps you could provide the page number…?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

justabubba said:
…in short, we just do not know that conservatives were unfairly treated or that their applications were set aside in an inordinate manner
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Sure we do:
Lois Lerner - "That was wrong. That was absolutely incorrect, it was insensitive, and it was inappropriate. That's not how we go about selecting cases for further review," Lerner said at a Washington conference sponsored by the American Bar Association.
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IRS Apologizes For Targeting Conservative Groups In 2012 Election

WHAT TIGTA FOUND
The IRS used inappropriate criteria that identified for review Tea Party and other organizations applying for tax-exempt status based upon their names or policy positions instead of indications of potential campaign intervention. Ineffective management: 1) allowed inappropriate criteria to be developed and stay in place for more than 18 months, 2) resulted in substantial delays in processing certain applications, and 3) allowed unnecessary information requests to be issued.
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IG report, Highlights, pg b (?)
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Jack Hays said:
The post from which I quoted to begin this discussion said that one third of the targeted groups were not conservative. Ergo, two thirds were.:mrgreen:
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justabubba said:
yes, it said that, but we have no knowledge of what was used as the criteria to make such a call
we have no idea that was a legitimate determination
Click to expand...

Conservatives made up 80% of groups with political leanings.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

“My father,” Elliott Roosevelt observed of his famous parent (FDR), “may have been the originator of the concept of employing the IRS as a weapon of political retribution.”
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New Deal Or Raw Deal?: How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America
By Burton W. Fulsom, Jr.

obama-fdr.jpg
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

One aspect that will have to be investigated as well, is that it went far beyond just simple IRS malfeasance....Groups, as well as individuals report that other agencies were also simultaneously harassing these people. Take for example 'true the vote'....

Catherine Engelbrecht of True The Vote joined Governor Mike Huckabee to discuss the harassment and abuse she received from the Obama IRS since she applied for tax exempt status. Her group does not advocate for particular parties or candidates but just for fair elections at all levels. The group obviously is a huge threat to Barack Obama and Democrats. Engelbrecht reminded Governor Huckabee that in the last 18 months voter fraud cases have been prosecuted in 36 states.

Engelbrecht and her organization were harassed by the Obama IRS for months. The Obama IRS wanted to know Facebook posts, tweets and where Catherine intended to speak. That was just one round. Engelbrecht said she was also harassed by the FBI, OSHA and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) who checked her gun safe.

UNREAL!… IRS Shake Down of ‘True the Vote’ Involved Visits From FBI, OSHA and ATF – Who Checked Gun Safe (Video) | The Gateway Pundit
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I think what is going to be coming out here is that the Obama, progressive, thugocracy is using the entirety of the US government to target political opponents, just like any other run of the mill banana republic dictator.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Mithros said:
Conservatives made up 80% of groups with political leanings.
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A percentage claim provided by the same people who inappropriately targeted conservatives.:roll:
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Jack Hays said:
A percentage claim provided by the same people who inappropriately targeted conservatives.:roll:
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True. I suppose you could just count them if you don't believe the IRS.
http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/Appr...209 2013.pdf

I came up with 70 conservative groups approved compared to 18 Liberal groups. That's 80% conservative.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...r-irs-matter-inevitable-5.html#post1061839433
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Now they're reporting that Stephanie Cutter was in the IRS meetings too ?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Mithros said:
True. I suppose you could just count them if
you don't believe the IRS.
http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/Appr...209 2013.pdf

I came up with 70 conservative groups approved compared to 18 Liberal groups. That's 80% conservative.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...r-irs-matter-inevitable-5.html#post1061839433
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The IRS wen't ALLOT FURTHER than just targeting Conservative Groups.

They harrased private individuals, they leaked donor list.

The low level employees are now saying their orders came from higher ups.

This is allot bigger than just their targeting of Conservative groups so why are you trying to cover for liars ?
 
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Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Mithros said:
True. I suppose you could just count them if you don't believe the IRS.
http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/Appr...209 2013.pdf

I came up with 70 conservative groups approved compared to 18 Liberal groups. That's 80% conservative.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...r-irs-matter-inevitable-5.html#post1061839433
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I'm sure we're all grateful for your hard work but I think I'll await the results of the investigation.:2wave:
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Jack Hays said:
I'm sure we're all grateful for your hard
work but I think I'll await the results of the investigation.:2wave:
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As if targeting of Conservative groups wasn't enough. The Libs that are trying to mitigate this disaster have no idea of the scope of this scandal.

How far the IRS went to target Consrvatives and Donors. Ruining peoples lives.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Fenton said:
As if targeting of Conservative groups wasn't enough. The Libs that are trying to mitigate this disaster have no idea of the scope of this scandal.

How far the IRS went to target Consrvatives and Donors. Ruining peoples lives.
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He's like a retreating fleet making smoke to mask their movements. I'm not going to chase him. We'll invade and capture his home port.:mrgreen:
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Fenton said:
As if targeting of Conservative groups wasn't enough. The Libs that are trying to mitigate this disaster have no idea of the scope of this scandal.

How far the IRS went to target Consrvatives and Donors. Ruining peoples lives.
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How far did the IRS go?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Mithros said:
How far did the IRS go?
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Ask 'True the Vote.org'....Seems a coordinated effort was launched to harass them involving the IRS, ATF, OSHA, and the FBI.

Also, if you want to know the face of this scandal so far, in that the woman that just had take the 5th, after of course asserting her innocence in the matter, even though the harassment mirrored the harassment undertaken by her against the Christian Coalition during Clinton's Presidency....

Some of this is clear without her wasting our time with her lying assertions, the unclear is how high up this went. And I believe to the top.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

j-mac said:
Ask 'True the Vote.org'....Seems a coordinated effort was launched to harass them involving the IRS, ATF, OSHA, and the FBI.

Also, if you want to know the face of this scandal so far, in that the woman that just had take the 5th, after of course asserting her innocence in the matter, even though the harassment mirrored the harassment undertaken by her against the Christian Coalition during Clinton's Presidency....

Some of this is clear without her wasting our time with her lying assertions, the unclear is how high up this went. And I believe to the top.
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But what did the IRS do?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Mithros said:
But what did the IRS do?
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What do you mean what did they do? Are you kidding here? Or maybe you think it perfectly fine to have the tax arm of the party in power go after political opponents.....?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Fenton said:
As if targeting of Conservative groups wasn't enough. The Libs that are trying to mitigate this disaster have no idea of the scope of this scandal.

How far the IRS went to target Consrvatives and Donors. Ruining peoples lives.
Click to expand...

j-mac said:
What do you mean what did they do? Are you kidding here? Or maybe you think it perfectly fine to have the tax arm of the party in power go after political opponents.....?
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No joke. What did the IRS do to target conservative donors? How did they ruin peoples lives?

We know that the IRS used "conservative" buzzwords to help identify groups potentially engaging in impermissible political activity. Did they do anything else?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Mithros said:
No joke. What did the IRS do to target conservative donors? How did they ruin peoples lives?

We know that the IRS used "conservative" buzzwords to help identify groups potentially engaging in impermissible political activity. Did they do anything else?
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I have outlined at least one group in this thread complete with the article outlining what went on. You need to go back and read, then come on back.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Grant said:
You sincerely don't know?

That's hard to believe.
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Consider it a given that the IRS used "conservative" keywords to help identify groups which potentially engaged in impermissible levels of politics.

Did the IRS do anything other than this? How did they ruin peoples lives?
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Mithros said:
How far did the IRS go?
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We shall see, but right now Republican Congressmen and Democrat Senators in the Senate are asking for peoples individual accounts of harassment.

Not too mention the people that have already made their struggle with the IRS public which started right afyer they sent ONE ceck in to support Romney.

The IRS released list of donors to Democrat activist groups and Democrats in an effort to intimidate any one who didn't support Obama.

This level of corruption is unprecedented and your'e defending it with your continued mitigations.

Eventually its going to come down to a choice for people like you.

Your'e either going to accept it and be sincerely apologetic or your'e going to accept it and say it was justified and more needs to be done.

The choice of " it never happened" just isn't there anymore.
 
Re: IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show

Fenton said:
We shall see, but right now Republican Congressmen and Democrat Senators in the Senate are asking for peoples individual accounts of harassment.

Not too mention the people that have already made their struggle with the IRS public which started right afyer they sent ONE ceck in to support Romney.

The IRS released list of donors to Democrat activist groups and Democrats in an effort to intimidate any one who didn't support Obama.

This level of corruption is unprecedented and your'e defending it with your continued mitigations.

Eventually its going to come down to a choice for people like you.

Your'e either going to accept it and be sincerely apologetic or your'e going to accept it and say it was justified and more needs to be done.

The choice of " it never happened" just isn't there anymore.
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If you don't actually know what they did, you can't really say that the level of corruption is unprecedented.

Also, while certain conservative groups have claimed that the IRS leaked their information, there's not yet any evidence that it's the case.
 
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